1. Subscribermoonbus
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    27 May '23 14:26
    @kellyjay said
    A young universe or an old one both had beginnings, meaning that neither of them started out by creating themselves out of nothing. Adding more time to your answer doesn't answer anything, you are still left with nothing. When the answers cannot be found within the universe itself than outside of it the answers are, elementary my dear Watson.
    Time does make a difference. If the universe is only 6,000 years old, then evolution is wrong. If evolution really happened, then the YEC hypothesis is wrong.
  2. Subscribersonhouse
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    27 May '23 22:552 edits
    @Suzianne
    Well sure IF a god really exists. Right now all I see is death and destruction of entire ecosystems. I would think if a god saw all that crap humans are doing to themselves and the planet said god would come down REALLY pissed and start knocking heads.

    That NEVER happened and all the tales in the bible and the rest, Koran and such, ALL just man made rules just SAYING this came directly from god, so DON'T eat fish and milk together.....

    Why does these religions capture so many billions of people?
    I would love to know that.
    My assumption is people are afraid of their shadow so anyone coming around saying they have the words of a god is taken whole with zero in the way of independent thinking, having given THAT right up when they bought into the man made religions in the world today.

    That said, like you said it is above our pay grade but in the absence of some real god stuff, I'll go in the direction towards atheism but since we can't know either way, is there or is there not a god, cannot be proven either way so in my mind atheism is another version of religion.
    I guess I would be called Agnostic but for me all that means is I think ALL organized religions are man made, which does not prove there is a god or is not a god, since we all know about the Popper rule, if it cannot be falsified and so forth it cannot be proven in science.
    So it comes down to opinion and belief which is also not a proof for or against a god.

    It's just that books of the bible in verses where it says a man is worth 50 shekels but a woman is only worth 30, do you think a GOD would actually say that? That a woman who gives birth to humans is so low on the totem pole a god would say, Women are SUCH bitches? Doesn't make ANY kind of sense.
    And SO many other examples of OBVIOUS man made rules CLAIMED to have come from a god but CLEARLY just a man setting folks up to build a following.

    I guess it shows humans are gullible.

    Look at TODAY, where millions of IDIOTS drank the Trump koolaid and that wasn't even based on religion, just based on a dude who can fire up his base.

    Trump is a poster boy for the idea of the ANTI Christ, But human only, not god in sight....
  3. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '23 01:03
    @moonbus said
    Time does make a difference. If the universe is only 6,000 years old, then evolution is wrong. If evolution really happened, then the YEC hypothesis is wrong.
    The beginning if it is 6K or 17B has to start one way or another. Nobody here is arguing for a 6K universe if you ask me how old it is I don't know, I admit even if I were talking to people who accept that Bible as the Word of God I cannot even use it to tell you how old the universe is, it isn't clear. So I don't worry about age, only processes.
  4. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '23 01:07
    @indonesia-phil said
    If I might refer briefly to your earlier post, the 'dovetail' analogy describes two pieces of wood which are artificially joined, but are still two pieces of wood, (in our case science and religion) and will never be one piece of wood.

    Regarding this post, if a god created life on earth, why would said god not want us to see how he/she/it/they did it? Do you mean th ...[text shortened]... f dovetailing will ever bring these two together; the oil and the water will remain forever divided.
    Your word example stinks, science, and religion are two different things but the truth that both are talking about now and then, they would have to agree when they both get it right. There isn't a science truth and a religious truth, if something is true it will be true and both science and religion have to accept the truth.
  5. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '23 01:08
    @sonhouse said
    @Suzianne
    Well sure IF a god really exists. Right now all I see is death and destruction of entire ecosystems. I would think if a god saw all that crap humans are doing to themselves and the planet said god would come down REALLY pissed and start knocking heads.

    That NEVER happened and all the tales in the bible and the rest, Koran and such, ALL just man made rules just ...[text shortened]... base.

    Trump is a poster boy for the idea of the ANTI Christ, But human only, not god in sight....
    The worth of men and women to God was the death of Jesus Christ on the cross, it is what God paid to redeem us.
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    28 May '23 07:53
    @kellyjay said
    Your word example stinks, science, and religion are two different things but the truth that both are talking about now and then, they would have to agree when they both get it right. There isn't a science truth and a religious truth, if something is true it will be true and both science and religion have to accept the truth.
    What 'word example'? If you are referring to the word 'dovetail', it isn't my 'word example', it was Suzianne's 'word example', and if you now resort to the language of the primary school playground (sorry, schoolyard) then you really don't have anything sensible left to say, do you, as is apparent by the rest of your post. When science walks through the door, god jumps out through the window; there is no place for a supernatural creator entity, talking snakes, or any of the other nonsense that you post on here, in anything which justifiably calls itself science. In religion there is no 'truth', there is only belief.
  7. Subscribermoonbus
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    28 May '23 09:05
    @kellyjay said
    The worth of men and women to God was the death of Jesus Christ on the cross, it is what God paid to redeem us.
    Take it to Superstition, Spanky.
  8. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '23 09:24
    @indonesia-phil said
    What 'word example'? If you are referring to the word 'dovetail', it isn't my 'word example', it was Suzianne's 'word example', and if you now resort to the language of the primary school playground (sorry, schoolyard) then you really don't have anything sensible left to say, do you, as is apparent by the rest of your post. When science walks through the door, god jump ...[text shortened]... thing which justifiably calls itself science. In religion there is no 'truth', there is only belief.
    Clearly, if you reject a creator by definition you will never acknowledge any argument that suggests there is one, no amount of evidence including an entire universe will move you. It isn't because the arguments or evidence are not there, but because you by definition rule it out before looking at anything. Even suggesting there is no truth in religion and we can only find it in science if we keep God out of the equation is just a personal view, a belief, that you have.

    You have no explanation for everything being here, nor do you have an explanation for how the informational instructions guiding life come to be, or how in life it checks for errors, neither can you explain all of the immaterial things in life like consciousness, or eyesight without invoking miracles, because you don't have a mechanism that can produce these things, let alone how such mechanisms could ever come about. When in life we see these types of things can happen without issue is only done when a mind is involved that transcends the material being used and manipulated you stop looking at it and cling to denial.

    Keeping this strictly in the material world show your reasoning for how all these things came to be leaving miracles out of the equation, if you can.
  9. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '23 09:25
    @moonbus said
    Take it to Superstition, Spanky.
    Explain your answers using science.
  10. Subscribersonhouse
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    28 May '23 10:44
    @KellyJay
    You clearly think religious matters are on an equal basis as science and therefore should be able to be included in all science textbooks, right?

    But there is this pesky effect called Popper theory, if a claim cannot be falsified, it cannot EVER be called science.

    Tell me, how can I disprove the idea of your god?

    Any more than you can prove it.
  11. Subscribermoonbus
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    28 May '23 11:21
    @kellyjay said
    Explain your answers using science.
    That is exactly what several posters to this thread, excluding yourself, have been doing the whole time.
  12. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '23 11:49
    @sonhouse said
    @KellyJay
    You clearly think religious matters are on an equal basis as science and therefore should be able to be included in all science textbooks, right?

    But there is this pesky effect called Popper theory, if a claim cannot be falsified, it cannot EVER be called science.

    Tell me, how can I disprove the idea of your god?

    Any more than you can prove it.
    You can call an opinion science or religion and they both be about the same topic, how about just staying on topic and not worrying about the labels, are you capable of that?
  13. Standard memberKellyJay
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    28 May '23 11:522 edits
    @moonbus said
    That is exactly what several posters to this thread, excluding yourself, have been doing the whole time.
    Please, I didn't bring scripture into this discussion, only those that don't want to just stay on topic and instead want to lower this into a name-calling insulting marathon. Can you just give reasons that have nothing to do with unverifiable stories as you have claimed I was doing? Explain the origin of mechanisms that would generate informational instructions through a mindless process. I can do it with a mind, but mindlessness isn't up to the challenge, and yet it's the choice of those who profess to believe in science, why?
  14. Subscribersonhouse
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    29 May '23 03:41
    @KellyJay
    Right, It couldn't have been the original price deal was set by men and would again in Taliban control areas.
  15. Standard memberKellyJay
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    29 May '23 04:05
    @sonhouse said
    @KellyJay
    You clearly think religious matters are on an equal basis as science and therefore should be able to be included in all science textbooks, right?

    But there is this pesky effect called Popper theory, if a claim cannot be falsified, it cannot EVER be called science.

    Tell me, how can I disprove the idea of your god?

    Any more than you can prove it.
    Clearly, you should take that question to the Spiritual forum.
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