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Which is better,e4 or d4 as your first move for white.

Which is better,e4 or d4 as your first move for white.

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u
Sharp Edge

Dulling my blade

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Originally posted by clandarkfire
People that play 1.g3 or 1.b4 give up any hope of keeping their first-move advantage. Why bother?

Yes, I realize you can play it in hopes of getting out of book, but in CC there isn't any point and OTB your opponent can just build up a strong center and be relatively safe as long as he doesn't do anything too stupid.
I'm going to have to disagree.
CC is a beautiful way to study openings. Kind of drills the lines of play used in your head when you have a few games that you spend time with over a several day+ period.
And I love it when people play very unbook openings, gets you out of pure muscle memorization and reevaluates what all the pieces actually are etc.

And first move advantage only allows the opportunity for white to mess up his position first 😉
And OTB is a much more psychological factor that openings out of the orthodox, amongst fairly matched players, tend to apply different pressures and reasonings.

N
10. O-O

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Originally posted by Maxacre42
It depends on your style I guess, E4, and D4-C4 tap into different qualities. Personally I play C4. I used to play D4, but the Slav and Nimzo-Indian were very annoying to play against. Some people are seriously booked up, but with C4 you're almost guaranteed to know more than your opponent. I avoided E4 to avoid having to learn Sicilian and Ruy Lopez theo ...[text shortened]... some of the funnest games in chess and you do need to learn how to play open games to progress!
Well said - I personally like d4, because I enjoy running into Slav's and Nimzo's.

I don't mind Sicilians or Ruy's either - but hate some of blacks easy responses
early with e4. Just as you said - its a feeling thing.


Best of luck to anybody just choosing his way 🙂

N
10. O-O

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Originally posted by atticus2
It's been long-established and statistically verified that left-handed players start 1. d4 and right-handed players, e4. Ambidextrous players choose either; and people with no hands nudge a pawn forward with their nose, a3 or h3 being popular. People on the far Right prefer f4; people on the far Left, c4 or even b4! A few start with Nf3 but that's mainly because they're undecided.
Rec'd.

greenpawn34

e4

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Some stas may be of interest in this often discussed topic.

This is lifted from the RHP database 1400-1900 taking openings played
more than 2,000 times. (database in dire need of an update).

1.e4 is way out ahead in terms of popularity, it has been played
more than all the other opening moves put together.

e4 348,108 46% 44%

d4 154,593 46% 42%

c4 29,767 47% 42%

Nf3 19,870 49% 39%

f4 6,646 46% 44%

g3 3,881 43% 49%

e3 2,995 39% 54%

b4 2,700 52% 37%

b3 2,434 45% 45%

Nc3 2,281 49% 42%

And from 1900+ guys. (the good players).
Again 1.e4 has been played the most

e4 5,872 42% 31%

d4 3,603 34% 38%

c4 944 45% 28%

Nf3 378 38% 37%

f4 98 44% 27%

b3 81 54% 21%

Interesting how badly 1.Nf3 does at this level 38% v 37%
yet in the under 1900 games it scores 49% v 39%.

I know these stats really prove nothing but it may indicate
when an under 1900 plays it close with 1.Nf3 (usually followed
with g3,Bg2 and 0-0) then it's quite hard to leave a piece hanging
and they have castled.

All too often I've seen under 1900's White's launch attacks from 1.e4 & 1.d4
games when they are uncastled, undeveloped and they pay the price.

When they 'force' themselves to develop and get castled they tend to
do better.

Just a thought.

M

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Originally posted by greenpawn34
Some stas may be of interest in this often discussed topic.

This is lifted from the RHP database 1400-1900 taking openings played
more than 2,000 times. (database in dire need of an update).

1.e4 is way out ahead in terms of popularity, it has been played
more than all the other opening moves put together.

e4 348,108 46% 44%

d4 154,593 ...[text shortened]... 'force' themselves to develop and get castled they tend to
do better.

Just a thought.
I'm surprised at the d4 score for the over 1900 players! When's the last time that database has been updated anyways?

o
Art is hard

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Originally posted by Maxacre42
I'm surprised at the d4 score for the over 1900 players! When's the last time that database has been updated anyways?
'bout 3 years ago...

I find it interesting that supposedly the most equal opening of the 3 main openings (c4) is actually the one that gets the best win/loss ratio - more wins AND less defeats, (w d l: ) 47% 11% 42% 1400-1900, 45% 27% 28% 1900+. Why do you think this is? Can we conclude that 1.c4 is the best opening?

M

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Originally posted by orion25
'bout 3 years ago... I find it interesting that supposedly the most equal opening of the 3 main openings (e4, d4, c4) it is actually c4 that gets the best win/loss ratio - more wins AND less defeats, (wdl🙂 47% 11% 42% 1400-1900, 45% 27% 28% 1900+. Why do you think this is? Can we conclude that 1.c4 is the best opening?
I think we can conclude that the database needs to be updated 🙂

greenpawn34

e4

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As I said these stats really mean nothing except you can say for sure
the 1.e4 is the most popular choice for an opening move.

It would only take a few like a honus User 213143 who
has lost nearly 7,000 games v nearly 5,000 wins to make these
figures all cock-eyed.
Especially if he loses everytime someone plays 1.c4 against him.

(His score v 1.c4 is actually 50/50 but when he plays 1.e4 his score
is 39% wins v 58% losses).

Not a poke at him just an obsevation how this win/loss ratio
must be taken with a pinch of salt and a spoonful of sugar.

[My 1.e4 score, the only opening move I play, is 67% wins v 24% losses.]

w
If Theres Hell Below

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Originally posted by greenpawn34
As I said these stats really mean nothing except you can say for sure
the 1.e4 is the most popular choice for an opening move.

It would only take a few like a honus User 213143 who
has lost nearly 7,000 games v nearly 5,000 wins to make these
figures all cock-eyed.
Especially if he losses everytime someone plays 1.c4 against him.

(His s ...[text shortened]... a spoonful of sugar.

[My 1.e4 score, the only opening move I play, is 67% wins v 24% losses.]
also, wins vs losses percentage only tells you how the average opponents were rated. a high winning percentage equals playing much weaker opponents.

greenpawn34

e4

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Hi WW.

Correct - my wins ratio OTB is much lower with 1.e4. because I have
to play players roughly my own OTB grade.

Infact last time I looked I score higher OTB with Black 1...e5 or 1...d6
than I do with a White 1.e4 - most likely 'cos I walk into players pet defences

It's been suggested on another thread that players tend to put more
effort into their Black defences and I think this is true.

On here my Black score 1.e4 1.e5 2.Nf3 is a whopping 88% (Latvian Gambits).
When the DB finally gets updated it may even go higher.

o
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Yes that makes, sense, but don't people play against stronger players also? And what about the stats for above 1900? do they mean anything?

w
If Theres Hell Below

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Originally posted by orion25
Yes that makes, sense, but don't people play against stronger players also? And what about the stats for above 1900? do they mean anything?
if you play against -200pts opposition, you'll score 75%. if you play against +200pts opposition you'll score 25%. if against peers, you score 50%.

if you do better or worse, your rating will change so that the above holds. it's a fundamental consequence of the rating formula.

the only meaningful comparison is your 1.e4 score against your 1.d4 score. if you do 73% on one, and 83% on the other, there's a difference.

M

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Originally posted by wormwood


the only meaningful comparison is your 1.e4 score against your 1.d4 score. if you do 73% on one, and 83% on the other, there's a difference.
Maybe it means something with a big sample size, like hundreds of games but by the time you get that sample size, the first games in that sample aren't relevant anymore. Sooo I think it still comes down to which one you like better 🙂

W

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There is such huge variation in both lines, it depends such a lot on your subsequent moves.

The OP's main problem is that e4 f3 is not a sound 2nd move.

w
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Originally posted by Maxacre42
Maybe it means something with a big sample size, like hundreds of games but by the time you get that sample size, the first games in that sample aren't relevant anymore. Sooo I think it still comes down to which one you like better 🙂
yeah, people always do best in the type of positions they're most comfortable in. if it's not flat-out losing it's perfectly fine, and nobody on our level will be able to exploit the possible microscopic theoretical disadvantage.

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