29 Jan 06
Originally posted by Sicilian Smaugthank you, and ragnorak
Kindly supplied by Ragnorak a while back Thread 32573
excellent thread
30 Jan 06
As a matter of interest, how 'stupid' do you have to be to get mated with 2 knights? It's one of those axioms you hear all the time but it's never come up in one of my games. Would you have to literally walk unassisted into a corner to get mated or is there a specific way you need to play to avoid the mate?
30 Jan 06
Originally posted by SchumiI think the defending side can be forced to the back rank or the a/h files, and the attacking side has their horses in the optomal setup. There then comes a point with the defending king on g1 (say), and one of the knights gives check.
As a matter of interest, how 'stupid' do you have to be to get mated with 2 knights? It's one of those axioms you hear all the time but it's never come up in one of my games. Would you have to literally walk unassisted into a corner to get mated or is there a specific way you need to play to avoid the mate?
The defending king can go to h1, but this allows a mate in 1 from the other horsey.
Or, the defending king can go to f1. Wiich doesn't.
It is that sort of order of stupidity.
30 Jan 06
Originally posted by chesskid001Knight and bishop is very complicated though. Most masters even call it a draw at that point. GM Ruben Fine was asked how to checkmate with a knight and a bishop. It took him about fifteen minutes before he discovered the 13 move checkmate. But, now, that's Ruben Fine. 🙂 I've tried it over and over, and still give up. I know how the theory goes though. The bishop's color. Must get the enemy king to one of those corners.
Knight and bishop can force mate, two knights can't unless opponent is stupid
30 Jan 06
Originally posted by RedmikeA King and two Knights can only mate if the opposing side has one more piece, but not always. The endgame composer Troitsky produced many studies consisting of a King and two Knights vs. a King and Pawn that ended in mate; so at a minimum, the defending side must have at least a pawn in order for a checkmate to occur. As a side note, a King and two Knights vs. a lone King can never end in mate but it can end in stalemate.
I think the defending side can be forced to the back rank or the a/h files, and the attacking side has their horses in the optomal setup. There then comes a point with the defending king on g1 (say), and one of the knights gives check.
The defending king can go to h1, but this allows a mate in 1 from the other horsey.
Or, the defending king can go to f1. Wiich doesn't.
It is that sort of order of stupidity.
31 Jan 06
1 edit
Originally posted by powershakerPerhaps you should show these GMs that are agreeing to a draw with KBNK Ragnorak's thread on the subject (Thread 32573). While in some positions it is a very difficult task for a human to force a mate against perfect play without exceeding the 50 move rule (it can be done, the longest with perfect play is 33 moves but I doubt anyone could play it over the board) humans don't play perfect defence. I've seen showboating 1700 players deliberately trade to this endgame and then finish off the opponent just because they can (I also saw someone attempt to do similar by promoting a pawn to a bishop to showcase the two bishop endgame except he messed up and had two bishops the same colour).
Knight and bishop is very complicated though. Most masters even call it a draw at that point. GM Ruben Fine was asked how to checkmate with a knight and a bishop. It took him about fifteen minutes before he discovered the 13 move checkmate. But, now, that's Ruben Fine. 🙂 I've tried it over and over, and still give up. I know how the theory goes though. The bishop's color. Must get the enemy king to one of those corners.