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@AThousandYoung saidNot every source agrees with your definition:
If one looks at a map one can see Kurdistan is ONE contiguous Country inhabited by one Nation which has no Nation-State. Instead various neighboring States control different parts of it.
https://www.britannica.com/place/Kurdistan
One could say Ireland is one Country with two States on it, one of which is an indigenous Nation-State, the other being whatever North ...[text shortened]... used consistently in this kind of context but are often present to emphasize the formal definitions
Britannica Dictionary definition of COUNTRY
1
a [count] : an area of land that is controlled by its own government : nation
https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/country
Only parts of Kurdistan are controlled by their own government and even those are somewhat subject to the central governments of Iraq and Syria. The parts in Iran and Turkey certainly do not have their own governments, at least ones with functional control of the territory.
EDIT: The Kurdish regions in Syria have been almost completely overrun by the Al-Sharaa government and there remains little autonomy for the Kurds in that nation. https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/the-shrinking-space-for-kurdish-autonomy-in-syria/
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@no1marauder saidI'm using Definition 2:
Not every source agrees with your definition:
Britannica Dictionary definition of COUNTRY
1
a [count] : an area of land that is controlled by its own government : nation
https://www.britannica.com/dictionary/country
Only parts of Kurdistan are controlled by their own government and even those are somewhat subject to the central governments of Iraq and S ...[text shortened]... n that nation. https://arabcenterdc.org/resource/the-shrinking-space-for-kurdish-autonomy-in-syria/
an area or region that has a particular quality or feature or is known for a particular activity.
Definition 1 in both sources uses the modernized, modified word. Yes, in some contexts, it is correct to use Nation and Country interchangeably and to use State for a subdivision of the Nation/Country.
That's not the original meaning in which I use it which is Definition 2. Why have two synonyms when you can have two distinct words with specific meanings? And the way I use the words fits in better with historic use during the early parts of the Age of Nationalism.
Sealand uses the words in the way I do:
https://sealandgov.org/en-us/blogs/news/country-nation-state-sealand-sovereignty
A Nation: A Shared Identity
A nation is a community defined by a shared sense of “us”. It doesn’t depend on borders or governments. The Kurds, Catalans, and Roma remind us that nations can thrive culturally even without formal political sovereignty. A nation exists in collective memory, culture, and belonging. A nation can exist without land, a formal government, or legal recognition. It is, above all, a community of people.
A Country: A Distinct Place
A country is a cultural and geographic idea, a place that feels distinct in character, history, and customs. It isn’t a legal category. Scotland and Greenland are widely called countries, even though they sit within larger sovereign systems. “Country” is how we describe a place that stands apart, regardless of its political status.
A State: A Legal Sovereign
A state is the strictest term of the three. In international law, it requires people, territory, a functioning government, and the capacity to engage diplomatically with other states. This explains why Taiwan, Kosovo, and Palestine occupy complex middle grounds: their internal governance and external recognition don’t perfectly align.
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Or if you like this source better:
https://study.com/academy/lesson/video/the-difference-between-countries-nations-states-and-governments.html
Country vs State:
The terms state and country are often used interchangeably. In simple language, a country refers to a distinct political entity, much like a state. The United States can be described as both a country and a state. However, in political science, particularly in international relations, "state" is the preferred term because "country" can also refer to rural areas or regions rather than political entities.
Defining Nation:
A nation is a group of people connected by a shared culture, history, and traditions, usually residing within a particular geographic region. Unlike a state, a nation does not necessarily have sovereignty. The Jewish nation consists of Jewish people worldwide, but not all of them reside in Israel, which is a state. Similarly, Native American tribes such as the Lakota nation are considered nations but do not have independent states of their own.
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In this translation of Germania, the word country is used like I use it:
Germania by Tacitus
https://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/germania.html
And, beside the perils of rough and unknown seas, who would leave Asia, or Africa, or Italy for Germany, with its wild country, its inclement skies, its sullen manners and aspect, unless indeed it were his home?
...Their country, though somewhat various in appearance, yet generally either bristles with forests or reeks with swamps
@AThousandYoung saidThe examples provided for Definition 2 are not supportive of your argument:
I'm using Definition 2:an area or region that has a particular quality or feature or is known for a particular activity.
Definition 1 in both sources uses the modernized, modified word. Yes, in some contexts, it is correct to use Nation and Country interchangeably and to use State for a subdivision of the Nation/Country.
That's not the origin ...[text shortened]... y I use the words fits in better with historic use during the early parts of the Age of Nationalism.
[noncount] : an area or region that has a particular quality or feature or is known for a particular activity.
He moved to the north country to fish and hunt.
We went camping in the hill country.
They drove through miles of open country.
We took a trip to wine country. [=an area where grapes are grown and wine is made]
All are obviously referring to areas inside a larger nation.
Sealand's definition is hardly relevant since it seems to be a tongue in cheek joke "country": https://www.cbsnews.com/news/micronation-sealand-bates-royal-family-60-minutes-transcript/
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@no1marauder saidI already told you the word Nation as I am using it refers to the people. A country cannot be a part of a nation just like a house cannot be part of a family.
The examples provided for Definition 2 are not supportive of your argument:
[noncount] : an area or region that has a particular quality or feature or is known for a particular activity.
[b]He moved to the north country to fish and hunt.
We went camping in the hill country.
They drove through miles of open country.
We took a trip to wine country. [=an area where ...[text shortened]... country": https://www.cbsnews.com/news/micronation-sealand-bates-royal-family-60-minutes-transcript/
You prefer Google AI?
Google AI prompt:
While people often use the terms nation, state, and country interchangeably, they have distinct definitions in political science and geography.
Key Definitions
• Nation: A cultural group of people united by a shared language, history, ethnicity, or traditions. A nation shares an identity but does not always have its own independent territory or sovereignty (for example, the Kurds or the Rohingya).
• State: A political and legal entity with a defined territory, a permanent population, a centralized government, and sovereignty (the power to govern itself and deal with other states). This is what people commonly call a country.
• Country: A geographical and political region often used interchangeably with a state or sovereign government, though "state" is the preferred term in formal political science to avoid ambiguity.
• Nation-State: The specific combination where the cultural boundaries of a nation match the political boundaries of a state.
TermCore FocusKey ElementExample
NationPeople and cultureShared identity and historyThe Kurdish people
StateGovernment and powerSovereignty and territoryFrance
CountryGeographic placePopulated land areaNigeria
Or, try this one:
https://www.thoughtco.com/country-state-and-nation-1433559
A sovereign state has recognized boundaries, people, and an internationally recognized government.
Nations are groups that share common language, culture, or history but may lack sovereignty.
A country can mean a state, sovereign state, or nation-state, but also a cultural area without political status.
While the terms country, state, sovereign state, nation, and nation-state are often used interchangeably, there is a difference. Simply put:
A state is a territory with its own institutions and populations.
A sovereign state is a state with its own institutions and populations that has a permanent population, territory, and government. It must also have the right and capacity to make treaties and other agreements with other states. Note there are also non-sovereign states.
A nation is a large group of people who inhabit a specific territory and are connected by history, culture, or another commonality.
A nation-state is a cultural group (a nation) that is also a state (and may, in addition, be a sovereign state).
The word country can be used to mean the same thing as state, sovereign state, or nation-state. It can also be used in a less political manner to refer to a region or cultural area that has no governmental status.
What word would you use to translate the Hebrew Eretz? If you translate it as "the land" then people might think it means soil instead of a location. This is what the word Country is for in political science.
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@no1marauder saidWine Country won't cease being Wine Country if Canada annexes half of it. It's still the place where wine can be grown.
The examples provided for Definition 2 are not supportive of your argument:
[noncount] : an area or region that has a particular quality or feature or is known for a particular activity.
[b]He moved to the north country to fish and hunt.
We went camping in the hill country.
They drove through miles of open country.
We took a trip to wine country. [=an area where ...[text shortened]... country": https://www.cbsnews.com/news/micronation-sealand-bates-royal-family-60-minutes-transcript/
In any case I think I'm being very clear what I mean by the word and where I'm getting my definitions from. If you don't like it then not my problem ðŸ˜
And admit it...if someone says "we'll be going to Kurdish country" you aren't going to be like "there are five Kurdish countries" or "there is no Kurdish country" are you? You'll say "which part? which government do we have to deal with?"
@vivify saidI am a bit late to the party, but let me say that patriotism is you say you love your country. Nationalism says that my country’s interests should come first. Patriot have more of a individualist bent.
How do we tell the difference?
They aren’t necessarily opposites. Someone can be both patriotic and nationalist. And neither word automatically tells you whether someone’s politics are left- or right-wing—there ARE left-wing and right-wing forms of nationalism.
The important distinction is how national loyalty is expressed. Patriotism generally doesn’t require believing your country is superior to others; nationalism , which is most of our posters here, indeed can, particularly when it becomes ethnic, exclusionary, or expansionist. This is Societies 191
My 2 cents. Weigh in, Sonhouse!!!!
@AverageJoe1 said
I am a bit late to the party, but let me say that patriotism is you say you love your country. Nationalism says that my country’s interests should come first. Patriot have more of a individualist bent.
They aren’t necessarily opposites. Someone can be both patriotic and nationalist. And neither word automatically tells you whether someone’s politics are left- or righ ...[text shortened]... hnic, exclusionary, or expansionist. This is Societies 191
My 2 cents. Weigh in, Sonhouse!!!!
😆
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@vivify saidSo tell us in your view what a 'Christian Nationalist' is please? Anybody please? And, can a Christian be a Nationalist? or Vis-versa?
Fox News refers to people they approve of as "patriots". But after reading the responses, it seems conservatives view nationalism as a virtue and also as a form of patriotism.
Patriotism and nationalism are the same thing, as far as conservatives are concerned.
@KingDavid403 saidChristian nationalists are people who support a specific culture sharing their beliefs controlling the country.
So tell us in your view what a 'Christian Nationalist' is please? Anybody please? And, can a Christian be a Nationalist? or Vis-versa?
In the U.S. this often means white evangelicals, who are one of the largest and most powerful voting blocs.
"Can a Christian be a nationalists?" Depends on one's personal view of it. If you believe in the "Good Samaritan" theology where Jesus calls on us to help and love outsiders, then probably not.
@vivify saidThanks for the awesome honest response. 🙂
Christian nationalists are people who support a specific culture sharing their beliefs controlling the country.
In the U.S. this often means white evangelicals, who are one of the largest and most powerful voting blocs.
"Can a Christian be a nationalists?" Depends on one's personal view of it. If you believe in the "Good Samaritan" theology where Jesus calls on us to help and love outsiders, then probably not.
In my opinion, as an American from the USA, I don't think it is possible to be both A Christian and a Nationalist.
However, for an Israeli Christian, I wonder. 🙂
@KingDavid403 saidWhen Jesus told the parable of the Good Samaritan he was speaking to Jews in what is now modern-day Israel.
Thanks for the awesome honest response. 🙂
In my opinion, as an American from the USA, I don't think it is possible to be both A Christian and a Nationalist.
However, for an Israeli Christian, I wonder. 🙂
So I don't see why they'd be any different.