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s
Fast and Curious

slatington, pa, usa

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@Wajoma
I was asking policy questions about libertarians, not a rant, what are their policy vis a vis other countries? Ignore them?

Die Cheeseburger

Provocation

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2 edits

@sonhouse said
@Wajoma
I was asking policy questions about libertarians, not a rant, what are their policy vis a vis other countries? Ignore them?
Asking a bunch of different questions in order to obfuscate, an obvious tactic, I call it the shotgun approach 20 pellets you hope one will hit a mark.

There were 10 different questions in your post ijit, none of them were topics being discussed each one could have a thread of it's own. You think you're being clever when everyone can see through your stupid tactic. Then you demand answers?? haha.

a.k.a. ranting like an ijit.

Edit: Here's the tactic, I take time and effort to answer one question, you ignore it and focus on the other 9. I'm not your monkey, you're my puppet jerking on my strings lil sunstroker fella.

s
Democracy Advocate

Joined
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@sh76 said
===Pointing a gun at someone. The other person is 'at risk' because he doesn't know if it is loaded or what you intend.===

I don't understand. How does that put him at risk?
I'm not talking about a toy gun or a gun that I know doesn't function. Just a dude with a gun. I have no idea if the gun is loaded. If he tells me it is not loaded, I have no idea if he is correct or mistaken (or lying).

You can gauge risk by your reaction: if you immediately move out of the line of fire (I would), then that shows there is a risk.

And that's normal. People who know how to handle firearms never point them at each other because of the risk. What if someone forgot there was a round in the chamber?

w

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@wajoma said
In the context of "Police, Justice, Defense" Justice means a system of courts, judges, legal proceedings.
You're not understanding the assignment. In a libertarian government, what would justice look like?

s
Fast and Curious

slatington, pa, usa

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@Wajoma
Ok, one question at a time. Is there libertarian policy in your country concerning the status of China and their ongoing work to establish thousands of acres of artificial militarized islands to take over large areas of international waters for the intimidation of the Philippines?

Die Cheeseburger

Provocation

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@sonhouse said
@Wajoma
Ok, one question at a time. Is there libertarian policy in your country concerning the status of China and their ongoing work to establish thousands of acres of artificial militarized islands to take over large areas of international waters for the intimidation of the Philippines?
No

Lord

Sewers of Holland

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Libertarians are just people who can’t spell librarian.

Die Cheeseburger

Provocation

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@spruce112358 said
I'm not an "open borders" libertarian because rights protection costs money (i.e. taxes) and someone newly arrived hasn't paid in.

Expecting to take advantage of rights protection you haven't paid for is problematic.

We might do it on a small scale, charitably, but it is better if the migrant goes back and establishes a democracy that protects his rights where he c ...[text shortened]... . This solves both of our problems in a much more permanent way. It's cheaper, too, in the long run.
You appear to be opposed to any immigration, am I reading that right?

spruce:

..."if the migrant goes back and establishes a democracy that protects his rights where he came from."

LOL are you sure you like left the LP and weren't like kicked out? Democracy is no guarantee of your rights being protected. If 51% of the pop think you must take experimental drugs, of which the long term effects are unknown then that's bad luck for the 49%. See how that works, democracy has nothing to do with freedom. The tyranny of the mob is no less a tyranny.

s
Democracy Advocate

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@wajoma said
You appear to be opposed to any immigration, am I reading that right?

spruce:

..."if the migrant goes back and establishes a democracy that protects his rights where he came from."

LOL are you sure you like left the LP and weren't like kicked out? Democracy is no guarantee of your rights being protected. If 51% of the pop think you must take experimental drugs ...[text shortened]... w that works, democracy has nothing to do with freedom. The tyranny of the mob is no less a tyranny.
Why would I be opposed to immigration? My dad was an immigrant and so is my wife. Hell, so was my dog...

But large migrations away from dictatorship and economic hardship aren't possible anymore. The world is too crowded.

Hard left into COVID... ok. I'm against any sort of mandated medical procedure. It is fundamentally your right to decide what you take or don't take. But you also have no right to infect others with diseases you carry (i.e. don't place others at risk without consent). So there is a rights-balancing that has to take place in the public space in the time of a pandemic - your right to move around vs. other people's right not to be infected by you.

Big 'D' Democracy: rights are decided by a super-majority, not a simple majority. Also, a simple majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority, i.e. pass a law that applies to the minority but not the majority. Those conventions are enough to keep 'mob rule' in check.

I left the LP because their commitment to the idea that we are all obligated to help protect each other's rights was not 100%, and seemed to me to be weakening. They've called 3? times to see if I would come back.

Die Cheeseburger

Provocation

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@spruce112358 said
Why would I be opposed to immigration? My dad was an immigrant and so is my wife. Hell, so was my dog...

But large migrations away from dictatorship and economic hardship aren't possible anymore. The world is too crowded.

Hard left into COVID... ok. I'm against any sort of mandated medical procedure. It is fundamentally your right to decide what you take or don't t ...[text shortened]... was not 100%, and seemed to me to be weakening. They've called 3? times to see if I would come back.
There's no other way to read your post. Reposted here:

"I'm not an "open borders" libertarian because rights protection costs money (i.e. taxes) and someone newly arrived hasn't paid in.

Expecting to take advantage of rights protection you haven't paid for is problematic.

We might do it on a small scale, charitably, but it is better if the migrant goes back and establishes a democracy that protects his rights where he came from. This solves both of our problems in a much more permanent way. It's cheaper, too, in the long run.
"

No immigrant has 'paid in' unless you're advocating some entrance fee? Is that it, no entry until you pay up. Under what circumstance would you allow your 'dad' to enter the US.

s
Democracy Advocate

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@wajoma said
There's no other way to read your post. Reposted here:

[i]"I'm not an "open borders" libertarian because rights protection costs money (i.e. taxes) and someone newly arrived hasn't paid in.

Expecting to take advantage of rights protection you haven't paid for is problematic.

We might do it on a small scale, charitably, but it is better if the migrant goes back and es ...[text shortened]... it, no entry until you pay up. Under what circumstance would you allow your 'dad' to enter the US.
'Pay a fee to migrate.' Interesting idea.

My second cousin who left SA had to spend time in NZ - couple years - before he could migrate to Perth.

Why is NZ different from AU re: immigration?

Dad came and did an MS at Iowa State, then went back and worked, then came back and did a PhD, married and stayed.

The border was never 'open'. They decided to let him through each time.

I guess they needed MORE STATISTICIANS!!! {drops mic}

s
Democracy Advocate

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1 edit

@Wajoma
I think the reason you are such a staunch libertarian is, partly, you are reacting to your countrymen who are such rule-followers. All the NZer's I've met *love* to follow the rules!

One colleague who went back to NZ during the COVID was quarantined for a couple weeks in a hotel - couldn't even proceed to see his family! Place was guarded by troops. Americans would have gone ballistic. As it was, the hotel ran out of wine...!

That sort of thing gets right up your nose, doesn't it? Am I far off?

w

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1 edit

@wajoma said
Libertarian immigration policy: Let peaceful people cross borders freely.

An example of not a peaceful person: Crosses the border then puts their hand out for free education, healthcare, social welfare benefit, accommodation to be supplied by reluctant citizens threatened with goobermint force to do so.
Putting a hand out is not peaceful?

Regardless, none of that free stuff exists in libertarian society.

Government justice - what does that mean to a libertarian?

s
Fast and Curious

slatington, pa, usa

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@Wajoma
That is exactly what I spoke about, libertarians don't want to make foreign government policy decisions, so if Putin destroys Ukraine, then attacks NATO nations and WW3 is officially on and your own citizens are maybe called up to serve in your military because Putin decides to attack NZ and Australia, don't blame us for libertarian inaction.

Die Cheeseburger

Provocation

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@wildgrass said
Putting a hand out is not peaceful?

Regardless, none of that free stuff exists in libertarian society.

Government justice - what does that mean to a libertarian?
"Putting a hand out is not peaceful?"

You want to play the semantics game, I get it. You know what it means, but to dumb it all the way down for you, knowingly receiving stolen property is not peaceful.

"Regardless, none of that free stuff exists in libertarian society."

Correct, it exists in a social welfare society and that's why free and open immigration i.e. let peaceful people cross borders freely, can never be when there's all the 'free' stuff. Free stuff which shag doody for brains is a big fan of.

"Government justice - what does that mean to a libertarian?"

In the context of 'police, justice, defense' it means a system of judges, courts, laws and lawyers. Justice would mean that people have some recourse against those that wish to get their hands on someone elses property through force, people such as yourself.