27 Dec 20
@averagejoe1 saidIt's because they are NOT the same. Minimum Wage could be $10.50 an hour and the Living Wage for an adult with one child could be triple that amount.
Is there any need to apply the phrase ‘Living Wage’ in this scenario? Earning the govt-guaranteed minimum wage “is what it is.” So why the references to Living Wage?
28 Dec 20
@averagejoe1 saidA living wage is a pay packet you can live off.
The phrase ‘Living wage’ is oft used on the forum. Surely it will arise again with this new administration, with the Bernie on board.
It seems that, to have a level playing field, we all should identify and regard exactly what comprises a living wage.
That is all that I reasonably suggest. I made the above posts to express its importance. The humor, was mean ...[text shortened]... . And a fair response to Handy’s feigning not-getting analogies.
How can this put me off-base?
It’s not bloody rocket science.
And in Norway it’s much higher than in the US. And in the US it is much higher than in Angola.
What happens is that they take the average home cost (usually in the cheapest segments of the market: including electricity, water, per person, etc.) and call it X.
Then they have a model to work out what the minimum requirement is for food per person per day. And that’s what they call Y.
Then there are extra expenses such as clothes, schoolbooks, etc. And that they call Z.
Then they count up benefits people are likely to be able to claim. And call that M.
The living wage is then XYZ -M.
In a country such as the US it is very possible the living wage in say New York is much higher than in Alabama.
Yes. There are other models for reaching a living wage (existence vs subsistence), but they all come down to the same thing really.
28 Dec 20
@handyandy saidExactly.
It's because they are NOT the same. Minimum Wage could be $10.50 an hour and the Living Wage for an adult with one child could be triple that amount.
And this is one of the major problems.
A minimum wage should be the amount of money a person makes to live off.
But to do this properly, you need boundaries. Like labour laws.
What is the maximum amount of hours a person should be allowed to work?
If you say 100 a week. Then the mimimum wage can be much lower than if the maximum is 40 a week.
28 Dec 20
@handyandy saidPlease apply your thinking, though, to the two guys working at same job. The employer pays $20/hr to pack light bulbs. Let’s say govt requires the 20 as min wage.The single guy can live on that. But, Because family guy has 3 more in his family, it is not a “living” wage for him.
It's because they are NOT the same. Minimum Wage could be $10.50 an hour and the Living Wage for an adult with one child could be triple that amount.
So, what is Bernie planning to do so that ‘everybody has a living wage” (his words). That is the question. My answer, of course, is for him to have a 2nd job or to have his wife get a job. Certainly Bernie could not possibly think that an employer pay him more money than he is paying the single worker, which would have the effect of a ‘living wage for all workers.”
What could Bernie be saying.? Shav relates to minimum wage, which we all agree is needed. But what is Bernie proposing past that. He always says ‘living wage’ not minimum wage. Bernie is right, that $20 is not adequate for a 4 person family. When he hollers that out at a debate podium, what in the world does he want us to do?
We will be on this topic in a year or so, thought I would put it on the table. There is, of course, not an answer to family man’s predicament as far as working on the line with single guy. Thanks for all the input.
01 Jan 21
@AverageJoe1
There is that part of the minimum wage being for EVERYONE.
That kind of throws a monkey wrench into your argument.
01 Jan 21
@sonhouse saidFair e nough, Sonhouse. Every ‘ONE’. So, $15/hr is $30k a year. I could live on that. Thus, it is ALREADY a living wage. So, Bernie says min wage and then says living wage. What in the hell is that all about?
@AverageJoe1
There is that part of the minimum wage being for EVERYONE.
That kind of throws a monkey wrench into your argument.
Thanks, you made my point.
01 Jan 21
@averagejoe1 saidThe flaw in your argument is that everyone doesn't reside in Mississippi or Alabama (or wherever in the South you call home) where the cost of living is dirt cheap.
Fair e nough, Sonhouse. Every ‘ONE’. So, $15/hr is $30k a year. I could live on that. Thus, it is ALREADY a living wage. So, Bernie says min wage and then says living wage. What in the hell is that all about?
Thanks, you made my point.
01 Jan 21
@AverageJoe1
I have no idea the difference either but 15 bucks an hour most people could live on. I doubt you have ever seen pay as low as that though.
Even I get 30 bucks an hour and I am just a lowly technician.
02 Jan 21
@handyandy saidHere you do indeed touch on the flaw in the liberals’ argument about minimum wage. $15 goes a lot further in MS than in NYC. Exactly. So, libs need to back off and let the market (in each state, maybe?) decide who gets paid how much. Something to think about, don’t you think ?
The flaw in your argument is that everyone doesn't reside in Mississippi or Alabama (or wherever in the South you call home) where the cost of living is dirt cheap.
Whatyoutalkinbout, Handy?
02 Jan 21
@sonhouse saidMy pay has nothing to do with this general issue. What about Suzianne or Marauder’s pay? Any single person can live on $15/hr, unless of course he has a baby or makes other really bad choices. That is the simple fact.
@AverageJoe1
I have no idea the difference either but 15 bucks an hour most people could live on. I doubt you have ever seen pay as low as that though.
Even I get 30 bucks an hour and I am just a lowly technician.
02 Jan 21
The post that was quoted here has been removedNo argument from me. Move to a less expensive state, wouldn’t you say. 1900 hours a year is about $30k. A real worker will move up from that entry level pay, of course. Or not, his choice. (Choice is a word revered by conservatives). And, he can move to AZ. Isn’t CA for the rich?
Your post is about the horrible Califonia with unbelievable economic mess and forest fires, et al. Could you give us, maybe, Kansas City, or Casper Wy? How about Charlotte NC. Strange you’d pick SanFran in a discussion about cost of living. Don’t get like Handy. He might have picked Martha’s Vineyard. Wonder what an apartment rents for there?
02 Jan 21
@averagejoe1 saidThe federal minimum wage is $7.25 an hour. Many states also have minimum wage laws that provide for higher amounts and a qualified worker is entitled to the higher amount.
Here you do indeed touch on the flaw in the liberals’ argument about minimum wage. $15 goes a lot further in MS than in NYC. Exactly. So, libs need to back off and let the market (in each state, maybe?) decide who gets paid how much. Something to think about, don’t you think ?
Whatyoutalkinbout, Handy?
I think we all agree that $7.25 is not a living wage.