@Rajk999
"must be interpreted" you say? Just can't pass this one up.......

Who says you have the ability or permission to interpret the Bible? This is the problem you have my friend. No one can just sit at home and interpret anything from the bible on their own. Sorry you constantly miss that. If every human on the planet would do as you obviously do, nothing is accomplished and we all just end up with billions of interpretations.
The bible clearly says that this book, the bible is not open for "private interpretation" does it not?
It also says that his true followers would be in "full agreement" does it not? I would venture to say from all you've ever posted here, that maybe 3 would agree with you?

PS. I would quote those scriptures for you, but I really get tired of waisting my efforts as I know you know those scriptures, but you don't grasp their meanings. But there is still time left for Jehovah to help you if you really wanted it........

@Rajk999

I'm visiting with family and just looking to see what is going on. If one were to do a little more research, one could actually find info they could learn instead of assuming. Jesus commanded that we are not to kill any humans' right?.
So your assumption is wrong that just a little research could show you why Jesus said this:


"Although now extinct in Palestine, anciently lions were very plentiful there. They were found in the area of the Anti-Lebanon and Hermon ranges (Song of Sol. 4:8), the thickets along the Jordan (Jer. 49:19; 50:44; Zech. 11:3), and in “the land of distress and hard conditions,” that is, the wilderness to the S of Judah.—Isa. 30:6; compare Deuteronomy 8:15.

There ya go......

@medullah said
If that is the case (I haven't seen the books) he was clearly wrong.

The hallmark of the JWs is that if they realise that they have something wrong they correct, which is why they stopped wearing crosses, and the observance of festivals that although are in the "Christian Calendar" are clearly of pagan origins e.g. Christmas. 2 Cor 6:14

There you go, no need for a barge pole.

Good stuff. So I will be gone pretty much for about a week. My son is flying in today from Tucson and will be here throughout the solar eclipse and then some. He's going out with his sister and family to a State Park to camp for a few days to see the eclipse away from the big city. They are saying over half a million visitors from all over the world will be here in Texas along the eclipse path. So gonna get crazy...
By the way all of our best friends here will say "I'm distancing myself". Lol

@medullah said
A very reasonable observation. The belief held is that in 1914 Jesus cleared out the heavens

Rev 12: 7 Then war broke out in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back. 8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven. 9 The great dragon was hurled down—that ancient serpent called the devil, or S ...[text shortened]... ld astray. He was hurled to the earth, and his angels with him.

And of course in 1914 we had WW1.

Perfect post. So clear to those who understand.....

I know there are a few here that have no intention of learning anything about the process that was set in motion after 1914 by Jesus who after throwing satan out of heaven, started ruling over his followers here on earth. The light of understanding of what was starting here on earth with ones who were breaking away from the churches that were not teaching truths in their paganistic churches, were being feed spiritually by Jesus. But this was to be a slow process that according to the Bible would take time.
So yes there were truths that were not clear yet at that time and there were misunderstandings which the bible clearly said would happen.
So you all can continue with this misguided fascination you have with being stuck in this subject that happened a century ago.
A spiritually wise person should maybe look at the progress and constant forward steps that has been made since then and should see the JW's for who we are now and all the progress that has been made to separate ourselves from the false teachings that all the so called Christian religions STILL practice that are not approved of by Jehovah or Jesus.

Most here have no idea this happened in heaven right above your heads but after he threw Satan down to earth Jesus put in place a channel that he has used to help his followers to be spiritually clean. That channel is the faithful and discreet slave ,who are the early ones like Russel and others, which Christ appointed in 1919. (Matt. 24:45) By then, the Bible Students had already cleansed themselves of many false religious teachings like the trinity, but, like any students, they needed further teaching spiritually. Jesus has gradually made the light to his followers about many beliefs that they have to abandon. Proverbs 4:18 says:

18 But the path of the righteous is like the bright morning light
That grows brighter and brighter until full daylight.

So I know many are stuck in our past back a century ago and think that our progressing in our understanding of what Jesus is teaching is a joke, perhaps one should look and learn at us today and grasp the amount of progress we've made and the willingness and effort we make to come to your doors to teach you what we have been taught. It seems that would be a great deal for you doubters to think about and that is for someone to come to your house at our expense, it cost you nothing, and maybe respect us for doing this in some countries that we are banned and could go to prison for.
And this is done for the love and concern that we have for you and your future........ but you are running out of time.

@Rajk999

Ho hummmmm. You are a broken record. I wonder how many more times in this century you are going to bring this up again, and again?
Have you ever thought of using all of this energy of speaking of things that happened, oh lets say a hundred years ago that has been discussed sooooooo many times and maybe do something good spiritually for someone, anyone??
Find a scripture or maybe two that would actually bring encouragement to at least ((((1)))) person to make their day better or maybe give them hope of a better life in the future that Jehovah promises mankind?
Do you ever at all use Jehovah's name with any kind of respect? Off hand I can think of one spirit creature that shudders when Jehovah's name is spoken....
Ya think? Is that just not possible with you?

So I see this subject is being discussed again which is fine as there are a couple new ones here.

" That question has to be considered when Bible translators handle the first verse of the Gospel of John. In the New World Translation, the verse is rendered: “In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god.” (John 1:1) Some other translations render the last part of the verse to convey the thought that the Word was “divine,” or something similar. (A New Translation of the Bible, by James Moffatt; The New English Bible) Many translations, however, render the last part of John 1:1: “And the Word was God.”​—The Holy Bible—​New International Version; The Jerusalem Bible.

Greek grammar and the context strongly indicate that the New World Translation rendering is correct and that “the Word” should not be identified as the “God” referred to earlier in the verse. Nevertheless, the fact that the Greek language of the first century did not have an indefinite article “a” or “an leaves the matter open to question in some minds. It is for this reason that a Bible translation in a language that was spoken in the earliest centuries of our Common Era is very interesting.

The language is the Sahidic dialect of Coptic. The Coptic language was spoken in Egypt in the centuries immediately following Jesus’ earthly ministry, and the Sahidic dialect was an early literary form of the language. Regarding the earliest Coptic translations of the Bible, The Anchor Bible Dictionary says: “Since the [Septuagint] and the [Christian Greek Scriptures] were being translated into Coptic during the 3d century C.E., the Coptic version is based on Greek manuscripts which are significantly older than the vast majority of extant witnesses.”

The Sahidic Coptic text is especially interesting for two reasons. First, as indicated above, it reflects an understanding of Scripture dating from before the fourth century, which was when the Trinity became official doctrine. Second, Coptic grammar is relatively close to English grammar in one important aspect. The earliest translations of the Christian Greek Scriptures were into Syriac, Latin, and Coptic. Syriac and Latin, like the Greek of those days, do not have an indefinite article. Coptic, however, does. Moreover, scholar Thomas O. Lambdin, in his work Introduction to Sahidic Coptic, says: “The use of the Coptic articles, both definite and indefinite, corresponds closely to the use of the articles in English.”

Hence, the Coptic translation supplies interesting evidence as to how John 1:1 would have been understood back then. What do we find? The Sahidic Coptic translation uses an indefinite article with the word “god” in the final part of John 1:1. Thus, when rendered into modern English, the translation reads: “And the Word was a god.” Evidently, those ancient translators realized that John’s words recorded at John 1:1 did not mean that Jesus was to be identified as Almighty God. The Word was a god, not Almighty God."

@divegeester said
Galveston75?

Hey I do sleep at night you know..... Sorry I'm not awake 24/7 to be at your beckoning call.
Again we all discussed this already over and over a few years ago. I see no need in doing this again for about the 4000th time.
If it is important to you, go back and read it all again.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
You've said previously that a child from your church could answer my questions, and yet struggle to do so yourself.

How odd.

I've answered you many times. It is you that can't understand what the scriptures I've quoted to you explain. Perhaps you should not "lean on your own understanding" as the Bible says and pray to Jehovah for assistance.....
So as long as you keep asking a question that you don't understand, you must not be asking for Jehovah to help you? Give it a try....

@very-rusty said
Wait now this is suppose to be a discussion not to try and shut someone up. That is the point of Forums is to have different opinions, also one can agree or disagree, but it really doesn't need to be an argument or shut anyone up.

-VR

I was actually trying it to be a joke. But I'm apologizing to him here and hope he understands that.... Sorry if I offended him.

@medullah

Yes obviously Mr. @ghost-of-a-duke will never agree or accept any answer I give. So I've wasted way too much time trying to shut him up. Lol.

And I appreciate your comment on our neutrality with wars. I've commented before to a poster here that didn't like that we would not fight for our country.
He lived in Europe some where. Anyway I made it clear to him that if he or any of his family in his country were killed in a war ...it would not have been a JW that killed them.

So...Of course I'm probably the only JW here I suppose. First I'm very suspicious of those links and stories. I hope no parents ever treat their children like not no matter the reasons the parents come up with. And no matter the religious beliefs or non religion they are a part of, I would hope that the right authorities or whoever would or could get involved in the worst situation, intervene for the children's sake.
So I will not say somewhere a situation like these supposed couple could not have happened. But this this poster seems to believe every JW family with children goes through this.
By no means are JW's perfect. My son isn't. I'm not and my father is not. We have all made mistakes with each other,
I'm 67 years old and have had probably close to a hundred or more very close friends that I grew up with that were JW's. I have been a part of I think 10 different congregations because of moving over the years.
The point is I'm not saying that maybe, possibly some kind of horrible situation like this hasn't happened somewhere in all my associates from all that I knew......but not in anyway by any means have I ever seen or heard such a thing happen anywhere with them.
But I will say this......... I know for a fact that if any of those elders in any of those congregations and this would apply to any Kingdom Hall all around the planet, no congregation would ever for one second ever put up with that especially if the was physical abuse. If it were something that the elders could not help with from the Bible, and it was physical abuse, the police could be called if that was the last resort to protect the children.
So the poster clearly makes it sound like that JW children go through situations like this and live in hell.
He seems to thrive on this every few months and other then a possible made up story, I can personally say,,,,, because I'm a JW and he isn't, that if this has ever happened I was never once told about it by anyone or even sensed it. With there being over 9 million JW's and the possible few bad situations like this, try comparing that to the hundreds of thousands of children and their sexual abuse done in other very dominant religions by their own priest?????
Why does he never mention those?

@Very-Rusty

Well if one really thinks about what the "bible" says about what happens to humans after death it is not what most religions teach. Most religions adopted many pagan influenced teachings about 400 years after Jesus death. The early Christians were warned that once all the apostles and the ones who followed them and stuck to the truths that Jesus explained and taught, finally died and the churches that ruled, started to let pagan teaching filter back into the churches. And because of pressures that existed to combine the churches, many truths disappeared.
One was a burning hell for all bad people. Another was that after all good people died, they would go to heaven.
Those are not taught in the bible.
Jesus said that a small group of chosen humans would be resurrected to heaven to serve with Jesus to rule over the earth. Rule over who? It would be the humans that found favor in Jehovah's eyes.
The earth was created for humans to live on. Only the 144,000 will go to heaven.
The explanation according to the bible will be below.
Try to ignore all the blind craziness that comes crawling out of the wood work in this forum... It gets really thick here....
Oh yeah. Look up all these scriptures in your bible.....

The Bible’s answer:
"God selects a limited number of faithful Christians who, after their death, will be resurrected to life in heaven. (1 Peter 1:​3, 4) Once they have been chosen, they must continue to maintain a Christian standard of faith and conduct in order not to be disqualified from receiving their heavenly inheritance.​—Ephesians 5:5; Philippians 3:​12-​14.

What will those who go to heaven do there?
They will serve alongside Jesus as kings and priests for 1,000 years. (Revelation 5:​9, 10; 20:6) They will form the “new heavens,” or heavenly government, that will rule over the “new earth,” or earthly society. Those heavenly rulers will help restore mankind to the righteous conditions that God originally intended.​—Isaiah 65:17; 2 Peter 3:​13.

How many will be resurrected to heaven?
The Bible indicates that 144,000 people will be resurrected to heavenly life. (Revelation 7:4) In the vision recorded at Revelation 14:​1-3, the apostle John saw “the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000.” In this vision, “the Lamb” represents the resurrected Jesus. (John 1:​29; 1 Peter 1:​19) “Mount Zion” represents the exalted position of Jesus and the 144,000 who rule with him in the heavens.​—Psalm 2:6; Hebrews 12:22.

Those “who are called and chosen” to rule with Christ in the Kingdom are referred to as a “little flock.” (Revelation 17:14; Luke 12:32) This shows that they would be relatively few in comparison with the complete number of Jesus’ sheep.​—John 10:16.

Misconceptions about those who go to heaven
Misconception: All good people go to heaven.

Fact: God promises everlasting life on earth for most good people.​—Psalm 37:11, 29, 34.

Jesus said: “No man has ascended into heaven.” (John 3:​13) He thus showed that good people who died before him, such as Abraham, Moses, Job, and David, did not go to heaven. (Acts 2:​29, 34) Instead, they had the hope of being resurrected to life on earth.​—Job 14:13-​15.

The resurrection to heavenly life is called “the first resurrection.” (Revelation 20:6) This indicates that there will be another resurrection. It will be an earthly one.

The Bible teaches that under the rule of God’s Kingdom, “death will be no more.” (Revelation 21:​3, 4) This promise must apply to the earth, since death has never existed in heaven.

Misconception: Each person chooses whether he or she will receive life in heaven or on earth.

Fact: God determines which faithful Christians receive “the prize of the upward call,” that is, the hope of heavenly life. (Philippians 3:​14) Personal desire or ambition has no bearing on a person’s being chosen.​—Matthew 20:20-​23.

Misconception: The hope of everlasting life on earth is an inferior one, offered only to those not worthy of going to heaven.

Fact: God calls those who will receive everlasting life on earth “my people,” “my chosen ones,” and “those blessed by Jehovah.” (Isaiah 65:21-​23) They will have the privilege of fulfilling God’s original purpose for humankind​—everlasting life in perfection on a paradise earth.​—Genesis 1:​28; Psalm 115:16; Isaiah 45:18.

Misconception: The number 144,000 mentioned in Revelation is symbolic, not literal.

Fact: Although Revelation contains symbolic numbers, some of the numbers it uses are literal. For example, it speaks of “the 12 names of the 12 apostles of the Lamb.” (Revelation 21:14) Consider the evidence for concluding that the number 144,000 should likewise be taken literally.

Revelation 7:4 records “the number of those who were sealed [or, confirmed for life in heaven], 144,000.” In the immediate context of this verse, a second group is contrasted: “a great crowd, which no man was able to number.” Those of the “great crowd” also receive salvation from God. (Revelation 7:​9, 10) If the number 144,000 were symbolic, referring instead to a group without number, then the contrast between the two groups would be lost. a

In addition, the 144,000 are described as being “bought from among mankind as firstfruits.” (Revelation 14:4) The expression “firstfruits” refers to a small representative selection. It aptly describes those who will rule in heaven with Christ over an undetermined number of subjects on earth.​—Revelation 5:​10.

Similarly, Professor Robert L. Thomas wrote regarding the figure 144,000 mentioned at Revelation 7:4: “It is a definite number in contrast with the indefinite number of 7:9. If it is taken symbolically, no number in the book can be taken literally.”​—Revelation 1-7: An Exegetical Commentary, page 474.
.

@very-rusty said
Did you know there was a time when the JW's would go door to door back when I was a teenager. Some people would get their dogs to run after them, they weren't well liked in the Catholic community.

Seemed like a nice enough people men and young teens all dressed in suits and the women in nice dresses and hats.

-VR

Hi and thanks. Yes that has happened many time and worse. Many have been shot at and threatened in many ways. Many have also been killed or imprisoned as some are today in Russia.
Yes it is one thing to say no they are not interested but just as Jesus said that many would be killed and locked away for doing what Jesus told his followers to do and that is to teach about Jehovah his Father and to look forward to the paradise that Jesus and his Father will bring this earth back to very soon now.. Prison is not a great pace obviously but for the JW's that are there it actually gives them a chance to start bible study's with others and many of them have become JW's.
But no we are not liked as you can obviously see here. I would hate to come face to face with a couple posters here as I'd probably fear for my life.

"Jesus Christ left no doubt about what being his disciple would involve. “A slave is not greater than his master,” he told his followers. “If they have persecuted me, they will persecute you also.” Jesus was hated “without cause.” (John 15:18-20, 25; Psalm 69:4; Luke 23:22) His disciples could expect the same—opposition without justifiable basis. On more than one occasion, he warned them: “You will be objects of hatred.”—Matthew 10:22; 24:9. "