Should we preserve certain areas of the world for these sentient creatures to live in?
Or should we treat orangutans like Palestinians - shove them off their land and bulldoze their property to make ro ...[text shortened]... for more of 'us', saying, 'We are stronger, so tough luck'?
Note: Orangutans are somewhat smelly.
The world is big enough for people, orangutans and Palestinians. Its not big enough if the orangutans decide to rape, murder and kidnap people. They are going to be extinct pretty soon, and yes .. they have less rights than people.
@spruce112358said I meant hassling over the point, not hassling me. I'm sorry if that did not come across.
AvJoe's slanderous innuendos are open-ended. He paints with a broad brush.
He posed a question: 'tell us what we can learn...' and my answer was that those accusations don't line up with my experience - an experience I doubt AvJoe has actually had, btw.
I keep telling you that its not about your experience, or mine. Dont personalise this discussion. Also you keep asking me about my experience with Muslims. Even that is of no relevance.
Dont know where you got that from but it is of no consequence either way. Who cares about Joseph? Muslims care about Muhammed. Remember when cartoonists drew Muhammed in an unsavory fashion how Muslims wanted to kill people? You think Christians care how you draw Joseph or even Jesus Christ for that matter? We dont care.
@spruce112358said What percent of Muslims would you say are decent and respectable?
I cannot answer that but there are studies that help understanding this. One example is a freedom index, which is rating given to countries based on personal freedoms. The rating goes from 1 to 10. Most western countries have 9 to 10 rating, while the best Islamic country is about 8 and that is Bosnia. Most of these countries have a very poor freedom index and rate from 2 to 5.
People who grow up in such an environment like Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, Qatar, Yemen are screwed up by their religion and their culture.
@averagejoe1said What has that got to do with the USA and should they not improve their own country? Should we take on their problems? How much so? Did you see where we have invited people of the Palestine society, beliefs, religion, daily life, to live in our country? From a purely objective point of view, that does not make any sense. Even the sight of a beautiful spreading oak tree ...[text shortened]... ne walking a Florida beach in full robed black hijab type regalia with only eyes showing
0 boy………
France banned those full-face hijabs some years ago. More countries should do that.
@athousandyoungsaid If Muhammad was a pedo so was Saint Joseph, husband to the Mother of God.
Joseph the husband of Mary was an ordinary man, who started no religion. Where you got the idea he was a pedophile ? I really dont care. I dont worship the man.
@zahlanzisaid don't engage in anecdotes. it weakens your point.
his point is moronic and is not made less so because you had dinner with a muslim.
there are more than a billion muslims in the world, living their lives in peace, in democratic muslim countries. More than a billion muslims with varying degrees of religiosity, just like there are christians who have never stepped foot ...[text shortened]... amily in a bomb dropped by a drone. When they are starving because of a siege or economic sanctions.
And people drop bombs on them because they are good for nothing terrorists ... you damn fool. People do not go dropping bombs on decent respectable Muslims.
@zahlanzisaid "For instance, he's mortally afraid of Islam. He thinks it is going to spread and 'get him,' so Israel is literally a bulwark, stopping the flood. He mentioned that."
often, hate and fear go hand in hand.
"For me, having worked with Muslims, talked with Muslims about Islam (it always comes up) and visited Muslim countries (Turkey, Lebanon, Jordan, Indonesia), I don't fi ...[text shortened]... st die? This animal says no amount of palestinians deaths is too much as long as Hamas still exists.
These animals sing 'Death to Jews'.
Let them keep on singing.
@spruce112358said So, I used to live next to a Saudi in Vienna. He worked at the Embassy.
His children used to play in our small yard. They climbed our trees.
When I dined at his table, they served a lot of fruit. They were very friendly. The smell in their home was of cardamom. He did not wear robes and was not smelly.
He did not kill any homosexuals in my presence.
SO WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!??!?
In case you do not realise it you are losing credibility with the following argument which have done several times.
- a point is made about a country in general
- you rebutt with "i know one of them and he is not like that"
- therefore you conclude that the point made is not true.
I cannot believe you are a learned and educated person. The human rights record in these Islamic states is dismal. In the case of the LGBQT community they face oppression and persecution and execution. Here is a Wiki extract about homosexuals in Saudi Arabia:
Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people in Saudi Arabia face challenges not experienced by non-LGBT residents.[3] The government of Saudi Arabia provides no legal protections for LGBT rights. Both male and female same-sex sexual activity is illegal within the country.[4]: 135–136
The law of Saudi Arabia is uncodified; a Wahhabist interpretation of sharia, derived from the Quran and the Sunnah, is the basis of the law and justice system.[5]: 205 In particular, the Quranic account of the prophet Lut and certain teachings of Muhammad in the Sunnah, as viewed in the Wahhabi tradition, inform the legal treatment of same-sex sexual activity and nonconforming-gender presentation. Homosexuality and transgender status or gender non-conformity are widely seen as immoral and indecent, and the law allows penalties for acts of homosexuality of capital punishment,[4]: 69–74 [1][6] prison sentences of indeterminate length[a][2] (the maximum term is unknown[7]), fines, flogging, and deportation for foreigners.[8] During investigations and detentions, mistreatment of suspects and detainees, including beatings and torture, have occurred.[5]: 208–209 Community violence against LGBT persons occurs.[9][10]
In May 2023, the Saudi Tourism Authority website updated its FAQ page stating that all visitors, including LGBT visitors, were welcome to visit the country.[11] Though homosexuality remains illegal, enforcement of the laws is not universal.[12] The move follows a series of social and economic changes, including the abandonment of the enforcement of wearing the hijab in public,[13][14] and the opening of the first public beach in Saudi Arabia where women can wear bikinis.[15] The decision to host the 2034 FIFA World Cup within Saudi Arabia received strong criticism from the LGBT community.[3]
@spruce112358said Don't know or quietly ignore? Religions evolve over time, and that's something that is something I am sure is happening with Islam at the present moment. The thing is, it will happen quicker without non-Muslims saying things like 'Mohammed was a pedophile!' That tends to make people circle the wagons and back way from constructive engagement.
Islam really angers you, ...[text shortened]... of "normal, everyday" Muslims who are not extremists as well.
So where is the anger coming from?
Islam can evolve, but what does that have to do with me. Muhammed was a pedophile. Its the truth. If they dont like it find another religion. If people dying all over the world because of Islamic extremists, does not bother you then you are one yourself.
@spruce112358said Don't know or quietly ignore? Religions evolve over time, and that's something that is something I am sure is happening with Islam at the present moment. The thing is, it will happen quicker without non-Muslims saying things like 'Mohammed was a pedophile!' That tends to make people circle the wagons and back way from constructive engagement.
Islam really angers you, ...[text shortened]... of "normal, everyday" Muslims who are not extremists as well.
So where is the anger coming from?
I am shocked that you do not know of terror attacks by Islamic groups all over the world. They have killed, raped and abused people by the hundreds of thousands. Its not just Jews is just about everyone around suffers. This is a dangerous religion and it is not to be trusted.
Here is some information from Wiki:
According to Fondapol, a French think tank, between 1979 and May 2021, at least 48,035 Islamist terrorist attacks took place worldwide, causing the deaths of at least 210,138 people. During this period, each Islamist attack resulted in the death of about 4.4 persons on average. The most common type of weapon used are explosives (43.9😵. The main target of these attacks is the military (31.7😵, followed by civilians (25.0😵 and police forces (18.3😵. Afghanistan was the country most affected by Islamist terrorism, followed by Iraq and Somalia. With at least 82 Islamist attacks and 332 deaths, France remains the country most affected by Islamist terrorism within the European Union. The majority of Islamist attacks (89.5😵 were in Muslim countries and the victims were mainly Muslims, in the same proportions.
"Several moose have even made their way into the suburban sprawl of metro Denver, the state’s capital and largest city, browsing in greenbelts, sauntering across golf courses, loitering ...[text shortened]... hooves."
"People love seeing moose, so it really is about finding trade-offs and middle ground.”
@spruce112358said What do your Muslim friends reply when you inform them of this?
They dont know about that. They are nor informed neither well read on their religion and the culture from which it came. I suggest they read certain Hadiths, and then they never raise that topic again.
Its kinda like you. You said :
.. In 1948, the Jews declared independence and expelled over 700,000 Palestinians from 'their' new country.
I replied with :
So here is what happened.
-. by a UN approved partition plan the British allocated part of THEIR EMPIRE [note it is a British Colony], to the Jews and another part to the Arabs.
- The Jews accepted the UN Partition Plan and declared Independence in 1948
- The Arabs did not accept it, but wanted all of the land, and joined forces with surrounding Arab states and attacked Israel , ARABS ATTACKED ISRAEL.
- The Arabs lost the war, and 700,000 Arabs willingly fled or where chased out.
You never raised that point again. Same thing. Facts trump stories, which fade when story tellers are confronted.
@spruce112358said With all due respect, I don't think that's the reason...
I could be mistaken, but my instincts tell me it is something else.
For instance, he's mortally afraid of Islam. He thinks it is going to spread and 'get him,' so Israel is literally a bulwark, stopping the flood. He mentioned that.
For me, having worked with Muslims, talked with Muslims about Islam (it al ...[text shortened]... ed a coup in Trinidad. Doesn't seem like it lasted very long. I wonder if that is all that happened.
You wish I were afraid. Men living in fear do not speak out as I do. I have lots of Muslim friends and acquaintances, and most of them are moderates. The extremists I can smell a mile off and they avoid me. Just like you they re-write history, and avoid the truth, which if spoken makes them look stupid.
Many of them dont even know Muhammed was a pedophile, neither do they know Islam encourages prostitution and sex with goats and other abominable acts. They are ignorant of their own disgusting religion. I pity them just like I pity you for lacking the balls to come out and admit your comment was a lie even though I posted what the truth was. Grow some balls and face up to the truth.
@zahlanzisaid i know why. he is a hateful prick who doesn't see Palestinians as actual human beings. "there are no innocents in gaza" is where debate ends
what argument could one hope to give after that. It's an exercise in futility. it gives me a modicum of pleasure to express my disgust at what scum he is just to vent my frustration this is happening and i am powerless to stop it
They are not human beings. Sorry. Your mind is twisted. These sickos started the war with the rape, torture of civilians, including children and babies. They dragged bodies in the streets and danced and celebrated. They are sick.
If I were in charge, I would give them 3 days, from Oct 8th to vacate Gaza [go in the f... ing sea for all I care], and the nuke the place. End of story. No long drawn out war, no loss of IDF soldiers, no billions of $$$ wasted.
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