‘Eternal suffering’ is nonsensical

Originally posted by @freakykbh
Maybe it's just me, but I find it bizarre to think a person could/would be fearful how another person views anything.

Maybe it's you just pretending not to understand the turn of phrase that JS357 is using.

Originally posted by @freakykbh
Hell is existence without God, in the light of God's existence, i.e., knowledge that God exists and you are without Him.
Hell proves God gave man an inviolable free will.
Without hell, there is no point to any decision we make accordingly.

Why are you avoiding my question about eternal suffering?

There are several Christians here who do this, I think it because they are ashamed of what they believe about it.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Bump for FKBH.
I’m still not clear on what your position is on he’ll and eternal suffering, as the comment I quoted in this post seems to imply that you don’t believe in it.

Originally posted by @freakykbh
No one goes to hell for their sin as sin has been completely removed from the situation.

Reply by @divegeester
Are you therefore claiming that there is going to be no one (human beings at least) in hell ... that is there is NO such thing as eternal suffering in hell through burning alive?


Bump for FKBH

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke

The divine righteousness that will see Sonship saved is intrinsically infected by the eternal suffering of other poor souls, as it is this very same righteousness that sees them condemned to the fires of hell. (One can not exist without the other). On this issue a child could immediately realise that there is nothing righteous about a deity who tortures people for all eternity. Only a misguided adult who has over studied the topic and lost all grip on reality could think otherwise.

Now here is an adult of approximately 33 years of age. His name is Jesus of Nazareth.
I believe that He had a firmest grasp of reality.

The words spoken by this Jesus? ... can you produce credible textural evidence that these words did not come from His mouth ?

"And I say to you My friends, Do not fear those who kill the body and afterwards have nothing more that they can do. (v.4)

But I will show you whom you should fear; fear Him who, after killing, has the authority to cast into Gehenna, yes, I tell you, fear this One." (v.5) (See Luke 12:4,5)

Let me be clear with you and you be honest with me.

I am not asking you about the interpretation of the meaning of these words. At least not just yet. Don't change the subject on me, please.

I ask you to furnish me with your most credible evidence that THESE WORDS themselves, which Luke records as being spoken by Jesus of Nazareth, WERE NOT spoken by Jesus of Nazareth.

Now YOU ... be a mature ADULT, Mr Ghost-of-a-duke and provide the Forum textural critical analysis that Jesus did not utter these words.

Please settle THIS matter first with me before you jump off to another rationale why I should DISBELIEVE the credibility of Luke 12:4,5)

Don't jump ! Stay right here!
Show us your mature adult responsible ability to present a plausible case arguing - that Jesus Christ DID NOT ever SAY those words.

Originally posted by @sonship
[quote] The divine righteousness that will see Sonship saved is intrinsically infected by the eternal suffering of other poor souls, as it is this very same righteousness that sees them condemned to the fires of hell. (One can not exist without the other). On this issue a child could immediately realise that there is nothing righteous about a deity who tort ...[text shortened]... ability to present a plausible case arguing - [b]Jesus Christ DID NOT ever SAY those words.[/b]

Wasn't "Luke" written, by non-eyewitnesses involved in trying to create a new religion, 60-70 years after Jesus was executed by the Romans?

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
I'm sure that's a very clever analogy, but it doesn't really address the meat of the issue. (A polite way of saying you have fudged the topic under discussion).

The divine righteousness that will see Sonship saved is intrinsically infected by the eternal suffering of other poor souls, as it is this very same righteousness that sees them condemned ...[text shortened]... sguided adult who has over studied the topic and lost all grip on reality could think otherwise.

The only attempt at clever is your response.

It is not divine righteousness which leads to sonship (or anyone else's) salvation: it is divine justice.
God's righteousness was satisfied by the work performed on the cross by the Christ when He bore ALL sin in His body.
This body was specifically designed for that express purpose, i.e., to allow the impure to be cast off and discarded; think of it as a courtesy flush.
Despite every opportunity, each of the bodies given from Adam forward all failed... until the Christ.
He alone was both qualified and worthy to mount the cross and be the transfer, which He did and in so doing, satisfied the righteousness of God.

The person who consciously accepts the gift has a point of reference with God, but it isn't His righteousness or His love; the point of reference is His justice.
Because of that work on the cross, God must impart His divinity in its many splendorous glory to every believer.
Why?
Because His justice demands it.

God's justice demands His love and acceptance, His agreement with everything intrinsically good and true, therefore anyone identified with His work receives the full bounty of His goodness.
If we could not reject God, what possible point would there be in the wager?
If there is no loss, how can there be gain?

When Adam had the first choice, it had weight and tangible consequences.
Stay in the Garden with God eating of His goodness or leave the Garden and eat everything else.
That's the menu we choose from, too, only our choice is in reverse: stay eating everything else, or join God again in the Garden.

Originally posted by @sonship
[quote] The divine righteousness that will see Sonship saved is intrinsically infected by the eternal suffering of other poor souls, as it is this very same righteousness that sees them condemned to the fires of hell. (One can not exist without the other). On this issue a child could immediately realise that there is nothing righteous about a deity who tort ...[text shortened]... ability to present a plausible case arguing - [b]Jesus Christ DID NOT ever SAY those words.[/b]

Your love of this erroneous doctrine will be, and in this forum certainly is, your downfall. I will never forget the day I read your post telling us that the knowledge of eternal suffering helps you forgive those who mistreat you. I have never heard a more revealing statement about the condition of a mans heart; how many times have you imagined FMF burning in the lashing flames of your hell?

This is also why you won’t acknowledge to me that my rejection of your teachings on hell and the trinity don’t preclude me from salvation - because then you would be accepting and acknowledging that I will escape your fiery retribution and therefore, according to you, you would find it hard to forgive me. How sad that is sonship.

Originally posted by @fmf
Wasn't "Luke" written, by non-eyewitnesses involved in trying to create a new religion, 60-70 years after Jesus was executed by the Romans?

Right now I am talking to Ghost of a Duke.

His next post to me, I am expecting, will present his textural critical case that Jesus did not speak the words of Luke 12:3,4.

I am not talking to you at the moment.

Originally posted by @sonship
Right now I am talking to Ghost of a Duke.

His next post to me, I am expecting, will present his textural critical case that Jesus did not speak the words of [b]Luke 12:3,4.

I am not talking to you at the moment.[/b]

If you only want to talk to GoaD, why not PM him?

Originally posted by @divegeester
Why are you avoiding my question about eternal suffering?

There are several Christians here who do this, I think it because they are ashamed of what they believe about it.

I am failing to see the disconnect you are seeing.
Once created, the soul lives forever.
That soul will either be with God or without God.
Forever.

Originally posted by @freakykbh
I am failing to see the disconnect you are seeing.
Once created, the soul lives forever.
That soul will either be with God or without God.
Forever.

Do you believe the teaching (as sonship does), that those who are not “saved” will be in hell being burnt alive for eternity?

It’s a simple question, the only disconnect is your inability answering unequivocally.

Originally posted by @divegeester
If you only want to talk to GoaD, why not PM him?

He didn't PM me.
There is no need to PM him.

You can't do the job I ask.
Let's see if Ghost-of-a-duke can.

The question is not about how hot the flames of hell, how loud the screams, how blood curdling the torture, how broad the smile on God's face, how happy the pesky evangelist, etc. etc.

The question concerns evidence that the very words were inserted into the Greek New Testament to artificially give the impression that Jesus said this when in fact He never did.

You can't do that job.
So let's see if Ghost of a duke has a case.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Do you believe the teaching (as sonship does), that those who are not “saved” will be in hell being burnt alive for eternity?

It’s a simple question, the only disconnect is your inability answering unequivocally.

As with your OP, the question is based on a faulty premise.
To my knowledge, the only material item to ever burn without being consumed was the bush through which God spoke to Moses.
All other material is converted to carbon once consumed by fire.
What material are you imagining "being burnt alive for eternity" exactly?

Originally posted by @freakykbh
As with your OP, the question is based on a faulty premise.
To my knowledge, the only material item to ever burn without being consumed was the bush through which God spoke to Moses.
All other material is converted to carbon once consumed by fire.
What material are you imagining "being burnt alive for eternity" exactly?

Do you believe in the doctrine of eternal hell?

It is interesting when Christians dodge this question; Lemon Lime, Josephw, dj2becker to name a few others.

Originally posted by @sonship
You can't do the job I ask.

You can't do that job.

Jesus didn’t say those words, at least not as you interpret them. Why you think I’m incapable of being unequivocal with you on this matter is surprising.

What you are asking for is evidence, well the evidence is that your interpretation of those words is an abomination. I reject your teaching, your beloved doctrine of death outright.