08 Nov 05
Originally posted by StarrmanOk, I admit I took a shortcut by pulling from Hal's list. But I have read the writings of many on that list, done my history and know plenty about those on the list.
As I've said before, I will compile a list of people I admire and that I think have had a positive influenc on the world. What I will not do is play stupid games with youover who's list is better than the other's. It seems you took no time at all in compiling your list, which is probably the reason the rest of us are having a hard time believing you ha ...[text shortened]... nt impact are varied and questionable. Stop throwing veiled insults where you have no recourse.
Your claim is based on nothing more than speculation - your arrogance to assume the list is nothing more than a group of people who happen to meet the criteria of being men of some religious sense is absurd and unsubstantiated.
Let's not play games (as BDN and Howard have started) but get out your competing list. I stand by my list, although I can expand it and blow a lot of time on it just for you.
08 Nov 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageHow about Abraham Lincoln & Benjamin Franklin for starters?
How about Abraham Lincoln & Benjamin Franklin for starters?
I found a list of famous dead non-theists for you--you have to pick through it to sort out the goodies from the baddies: http://www.jmarkgilbert.com/atheists.html
This exercise in comparing lists is extremely childish. What quantifiable good did TS Eliot produce? How do you quantify good? Ridiculous.
I'd wager that Shakespeare didn't pray.
Franklin was a deists and Abraham Lincoln was a man of prayer (ever read the Gettysburg address or his other writings?).
TS Eliot produced a lot of good when it comes to the world of literature - much is learned from him and his ingenious writings.
Wager away, but you'd lose - If you want I can bring around some quotes of his to show otherwise.
How do you quantify good? Ridiculous.
Let me give you a couple: (if you're really stuck on this, we could do it on each of the guys on the list)
- Louis Pasteur: his science in medicine is still used today and it has saved millions of lives
- William Wilberforce: his lifelong campaign against slavery freed countless men, women and children
Are these good? or just ridiculous?
08 Nov 05
Originally posted by RatXI asked how do you quantify it. How much does it weigh? What is it's volume? What symbol do I use to express the quantity of good that Wilberforce secreted? It's a stupid idea.
Are these good? or just ridiculous?
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).
And you can add Einstein to that list.
Here's a better list of atheists: http://www.wonderfulatheistsofcfl.org/Quotes.htm
It seems 5 of Time Magazine's top 10 people of the 20th century are atheists (which proves NOTHING! but you may as well know).
08 Nov 05
Originally posted by Bosse de NageI asked how do you quantify it. How much does it weigh? What is it's volume? What symbol do I use to express the quantity of good that Wilberforce secreted? It's a stupid idea.
I asked how do you quantify it. How much does it weigh? What is it's volume? What symbol do I use to express the quantity of good that Wilberforce secreted? It's a stupid idea.
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
- Abraham Lincoln, Americ ...[text shortened]... top 10 people of the 20th century are atheists (which proves NOTHING! but you may as well know).
Millions of saved people? I think that weighs plenty.
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).
Have you read any of his statements towards the end of his life? Quite different to this...
We were speaking about theists here... Einstein was a pantheist.
It seems 5 of Time Magazine's top 10 people of the 20th century are atheists (which proves NOTHING! but you may as well know).
You're really pathetic, man. Read up on people who had the greatest influence for good on the world over the centuries and most of them are not only theists, but Christians. This is where the argument lies - check the title of the thread - religion is not dumb, it doesn't waste lives and I'm still waiting for you to bring up a conclusive list of atheists who did the world a lot of good (comparitive to Wilberforce, Kelvin, Pasteur, Newton......)
08 Nov 05
Originally posted by RatXYou don't need to re-research something,eh?
Because I didn't think they had (as I was answering Starfella) some of the greatest influence on the world...
I don't need to re-research something - it was answered by Hal and I reiterated it for the guy who obviously didn't see it the first time.
Try researching something in the first place.
Other than the book of lies that is.
08 Nov 05
Originally posted by Bosse de Nage"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
I asked how do you quantify it. How much does it weigh? What is it's volume? What symbol do I use to express the quantity of good that Wilberforce secreted? It's a stupid idea.
"The Bible is not my book nor Christianity my profession. I could never give assent to the long, complicated statements of Christian dogma."
- Abraham Lincoln, Americ ...[text shortened]... top 10 people of the 20th century are atheists (which proves NOTHING! but you may as well know).
- Abraham Lincoln, American president (1809-1865).
Quotes are like statistics, you can prove anything with them... Here is one of Lincolns better know quotations, The Gettysburg Address:
Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate—we can not consecrate—we can not hallow—this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
08 Nov 05
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Originally posted by howardgeeWhat is this? Is there a point in your unsubstantiated statement? Or are you just dumb enough to think this is some sort of insult that will send me scurrying to the parish?
You don't need to re-research something,eh?
Try researching something in the first place.
Other than the book of lies that is.
08 Nov 05
Originally posted by RatXMarie Curie & Thomas Edison were also atheists.
This is where the argument lies - check the title of the thread - religion is not dumb, it doesn't waste lives and I'm still waiting for you to bring up a conclusive list of atheists who did the world a lot of good (comparitive to Wilberforce, Kelvin, Pasteur, Newton......)
I've posted a link; that will have to suffice. I'm not interesting in having a pissing contest.
Charles Darwin was a Christian. Did he do bad or good? Did Satan get the better of him?
I've never stated that religion is dumb per se.
Out of interest, do Origen's religious views (that hell does not exist) square with yours? Was he really a Christian?
08 Nov 05
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Originally posted by Bosse de NageI've posted a link; that will have to suffice. I'm not interesting in having a pissing contest.
Marie Curie & Thomas Edison were also atheists.
I've posted a link; that will have to suffice. I'm not interesting in having a pissing contest.
Charles Darwin was a Christian. Did he do bad or good? Did Satan get the better of him?
I've never stated that religion is dumb per se.
Out of interest, do Origen's religious views (that hell does not exist) square with yours? Was he really a Christian?
Your link is a fruitsalad of influential people's quotes. Please post something of a list with atheists who had a great influence on the world that even tries to compete with the list of theists who did the greatest good on this world.
Thomas Edison was also an atheist.
No. He was an agnostic.
Charles Darwin was a Christian. Did he do bad or good? Did Satan get the better of him?
Charlie became an agnostic. He didn't have much good influence on the world (not many lives were saved by his works).
Rather, his writings inspired a lot of vitriolic racism (Aborigine's killed for research and posed as missing links, the pigmy who was put into a London zoo). However, most people contend that his work was taken out of context or those results were way overblown...
08 Nov 05
You are an ass:
Originally posted by dj2becker
1. Hitler - Christian
2. Stalin - I don't know enough about him to comment.
3. Al Capone - Roman Catholic
4. 2 Pac - Theist, hardly responsible for the destruction of the world anyway.
5. Ice Cube - What has he done?
6. Kurt Cobain - What is he responsible for?
7. Marilin Manson - Don't tell me, you're convinced he's the devil.
8. Karl Marx - Many people would say he was a force for good in the world.
9. Elvis Presley - ???
10. Michael Jackson.... How is he a) An atheist and b) using that supposed atheism as an excuse for committing evil?
Need I continue 😉
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08 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by StarrmanAnd you definately lack a sense of humour.
You are an ass:
Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]1. Hitler - Christian
2. Stalin - I don't know enough about him to comment.
3. Al Capone - Roman Catholic
4. 2 Pac - Theist, hardly responsible for the destruction of the world anyway.
5. Ice Cube - What has he done?
6. Kurt Cobain - What is he responsible for?
7. Marilin Manson - Do ...[text shortened]... t and b) using that supposed atheism as an excuse for committing evil?
Need I continue 😉[/b]
Edit: Maybe you could come up with a list of your own instead of barfing all over everybody else's lists. 😉