Originally posted by chaney3I have twice had very convincing encounters with ghosts/spirits.
There is nothing that would serve as proof that God exists to you? I understand that you may be an atheist.....but....NO proof would be sufficient?
Every sense told me that this was the real deal.
Except common-sense.
In the cold light of day I realised that my senses were fooling me.
And that is how I would view any experience with god.
I would assume my senses were at fault.
(And of course we can scientifically show how easily we are fooled)
30 Aug 15
Originally posted by chaney3There is always going to be a way to avoid God, some here have made up their minds to
I have read many times, in various threads, that some atheists.....especially Ghost of a Duke, would welcome the idea of God....if only there were proof. I respect the fact that atheists do not believe in a God based solely on the bible. And after thinking about this for some time, I am curious......what proof of God would suffice?
What would it take fo ...[text shortened]... to turn his/her thoughts around, and actually believe....or hope....that God is actually there?
the point that nothing will bring them around except God Himself, but then it will be to late.
Its always going to be faith, not proof.
Originally posted by chaney3Well if this so called god came along, walked up to me and said "I am God, look at your hand", and turned by right hand into a dancing banjo, I'd be like "f*** ... my hand just turned into a dancing banjo, time to wake up now ..."
I expected more Ghost. It is a very relevant question. You have studied religion, and have still maintained the atheist creed. I merely asked....what proof would be required?
The truth: If God did provide proof......we would not be able to handle it. That is why we have no proof.....and, never will.
and the longer I don't *wake up*, and the more people express surprise and curiosity about the dancing-banjo-ness of my right hand, the more I would come to think "You know what ... if I'm not actually asleep here then perhaps there really is a God"
in short, God would have to do something pretty damned peculiar to convince me he/she/it/they exist.
30 Aug 15
Proofs and evidence will be on God's terms not ours.
Matthew 12:38-40New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
The Sign of Jonah
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
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30 Aug 15
Originally posted by AgergI still wouldn't believe in god if that happened to me. I'd want to know who invented the technology that allowed xyr to rearrange the molecules in my hand into a dancing banjo, so that I could slap xyr across the head with it.
Well if this so called god came along, walked up to me and said "I am God, look at your hand", and turned by right hand into a dancing banjo, I'd be like "f*** ... my hand just turned into a dancing banjo, time to wake up now ..."
and the longer I don't *wake up*, and the more people express surprise and curiosity about the dancing-banjo-ness of my right ha ...[text shortened]... hort, God would have to do something pretty damned peculiar to convince me he/she/it/they exist.
What would convince me is if I could detect god through his work. There is nothing in nature that can't be explained as the result of natural processes, but if there was, I would have to wonder if there isn't some kind of higher power.
30 Aug 15
Originally posted by KellyJayLinguine 12:38-40 New Revised Pasta Version (NRPV)
Matthew 12:38-40New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
38 Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to him, “Teacher, we wish to see a sign from you.” 39 But he answered them, “An evil and adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For just as Jonah was three days and three nights in t ...[text shortened]... ea monster, so for three days and three nights the Son of Man will be in the heart of the earth.
38 Then some of the cooks and chefs said to him, “Flying Spaghetti Monster,
we wish to see a sign from you.” 39 But he answered them, “An evil and
adulterous generation asks for a sign, but no sign will be given to it except
the sign of the prophet Gordon Ramsey .
30 Aug 15
Originally posted by C HessGod is the one that started the natural processes. So that is why everything you understand is explained by natural processes.
I still wouldn't believe in god if that happened to me. I'd want to know who invented the technology that allowed xyr to rearrange the molecules in my hand into a dancing banjo, so that I could slap xyr across the head with it.
What would convince me is if I could detect god through his work. There is nothing in nature that can't be explained as the result ...[text shortened]... esses, but if there was, I would have to wonder if there isn't some kind of higher power.
30 Aug 15
Originally posted by chaney3What do you mean by proof? Some sort of ontological argument or a personal revelation? If you're talking about any lower standard of proof, such as one based around some type of argument that there must be a creator as the world cannot have come about by chance, then it's simply not going to wash with atheists (at least non-implicit ones). I'm an agnostic and don't think it is possible to prove very much anyway.
If God Himself proved Himself to you.....you would still not believe?
What would it take Ghost?
As far as lower standards of proof are concerned, I think it's impossible to answer that question without it happening, as if there were evidence adequate to me out there then knowing about it would be enough to cause me to believe. So I don't think that it's possible for a non-believer to give an adequate answer to that one.
Originally posted by chaney3I did. Perhaps you missed it?
I asked in my OP......what would be sufficient proof of God.
You never answered.
Sufficient proof for me of God's existence would have to come in the form of a 'first hand experience.' (By this i mean i would have to experience God directly with my own senses).
I'm afraid i can't elaborate more than that at this stage as it is very difficult to quantify exactly what level of first hand experience i would require to accept that God existed. If it ever happens though, i will let you know. (*Even a vision of God would probably have me first questioning the state of my mental health, as have had many clients who have experienced religious hallucinations when unwell).
DeepThought explained it best. "I think it's impossible to answer that question without it happening, as if there were evidence adequate to me out there then knowing about it would be enough to cause me to believe. So I don't think that it's possible for a non-believer to give an adequate answer to that one."
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30 Aug 15
Originally posted by FMFThe answer to all three is No.
[b]Yes, but if they won't listen, they are not ready. Not humble enough. I will not shove it down some ones throat, and I won't preach hell fire and brimstone either. I do believe that no one comes to God except through Jesus Christ. But I say, if they choose another god, so be it. I cannot control that.
I count this answer of yours to be a complete dodg ...[text shortened]... rt of the religious beliefs you profess?
Is it something that Jesus advised you or me to do?[/b]
But as I said, I have no control to what you do.
I suggested other gods because that is what I did many years ago and they failed me.
I was searching, but to my surprise it was under my nose all along.
I was raised in a certain "Christian" denomination with all the traditional wrappings.
I discovered that religion leads people to bondage.
Jesus Christ sets men free.
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30 Aug 15
I like Matt Dillahunty's answer.
"I don't know what evidence would convince me that a god exists, but if a god does exist,
THEY would know what evidence would convince me"
The problem with trying to prove an omnipotent being is that it's pretty near impossible to
demonstrate 'infinite' power to a non-omnipotent being.
However it should be possible to demonstrate sufficient power that you have demonstrated yourself
close enough that for any practical purpose we cannot tell the difference.