What is wrong with being ATHIEST?

Originally posted by johnsteele57368
A curious question. What is the basis of Atheistic ethics if such a thing exists?

I am thinking of the Dostoyevsky quote, from The Brothers Karamozov, I think, in which one of the characters opines that, if God does not exist, then everything is permissible. That has long seemed to me to be profoundly true. So what is the basis of an Atheistical ethical theory?

Reason and empathy.

Originally posted by johnsteele57368
A curious question. What is the basis of Atheistic ethics if such a thing exists?

I am thinking of the Dostoyevsky quote, from The Brothers Karamozov, I think, in which one of the characters opines that, if God does not exist, then everything is permissible. That has long seemed to me to be profoundly true. So what is the basis of an Atheistical ethical theory?

Relativism and self preservation, or maybe it's just a big guess. Who knows?

Originally posted by sjeg


What is wrong with muffins? And is not [b]that the question we really should be asking ourselves?[/b]

Being an atheist has more in common with coups than you think. 😉

Originally posted by Coletti
Relativism and self preservation, or maybe it's just a big guess. Who knows?

How about fear? Rationalisation? Head in the sand?

Originally posted by lucifershammer
How about fear? Rationalisation? Head in the sand?

Until I came to this site, I never encountered people so stupid that they couldn't understand that non-Christians could have morals. I guess I should be grateful for being exposed to a different viewpoint, but that view is so plainly wrong and its wrongness is so patently obvious to anyone who has eyes that I don't feel very enlightened.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Until I came to this site, I never encountered people so stupid that they couldn't understand that non-Christians could have morals. I guess I should be grateful for being exposed to a different viewpoint, but that view is so plainly wrong and its wrongness is so patently obvious to anyone who has eyes that I don't feel very enlightened.

I don't doubt they have morals, I just doubt they can ultimately account for them.

Originally posted by Coletti
I don't doubt they have morals, I just doubt they can ultimately account for them.

Out of curiosity, what do you think it would take to 'ultimately account' for an ethical theory?

Originally posted by bbarr
Out of curiosity, what do you think it would take to 'ultimately account' for an ethical theory?

True knowledge. Not just possible knowledge.

Originally posted by Coletti
I don't doubt they have morals, I just doubt they can ultimately account for them.

Reason and empathy as I stated above (although Bbarr's question is a good one). For example, some of the Christians on this site think it's OK to stick a sword in a baby if God tells them to. But I know that I wouldn't want a sword stuck in me; I also know that babies have similiar feelings to me (at least on this matter). Therefore, I would regard it as unethical to stick a sword in a baby because it is doing something to the baby that no rational baby or person would want done to them. Thus, my ethical theory is superior to the fundie Christian ones expressed here at least as far as the baby who you might stick a sword in, but I wouldn't, is concerned. Got it now?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Reason and empathy as I stated above (although Bbarr's question is a good one). For example, some of the Christians on this site think it's OK to stick a sword in a baby if God tells them to. But I know that I wouldn't want a sword stuck in me; I also know that babies have similiar feelings to me (at least on this matter). Therefore, I would re ...[text shortened]... st as far as the baby who you might stick a sword in, but I wouldn't, is concerned. Got it now?

Isnt that because although they have heard the word of the kingdom, they have not understood?

Originally posted by Coletti
True knowledge. Not just possible knowledge.

Just as you claim that your ethical theory (Divine Command theory) is really and truly true, secular folk (like me) will claim that their ethical theories are true (really and truly). You think you know what is morally right and wrong, and I think that I know what is morally right and wrong. You think you have true knowledge (which is stupid, because all knowledge is of truths; nobody can know something that is false), and I think I have knowledge. If you think secular ethical theorists cannot 'ultimately account' for their claims, then apparently you are in the same boat.

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Look at it this way: The Theist Ethic arises out of fear of Hell and hope of Heaven. The Ethical Atheist believes that Ethics are worth having for their own sake.
So, there is nothing wrong with Atheism, provided of course that the Atheist in question is an ethical person.
Clear?

That poses a couple of questions :
Can an Atheist have learned the word of the kingdom by other means, and understood it.?
Can a Thiest have heard the word of the kingdom and understood it not?

Originally posted by johnsteele57368
A curious question. What is the basis of Atheistic ethics if such a thing exists?

I am thinking of the Dostoyevsky quote, from The Brothers Karamozov, I think, in which one of the characters opines that, if God does not exist, th ...[text shortened]... undly true. So what is the basis of an Atheistical ethical theory?

Even if everything was "permitted" because the god wasn't watching/didn't exist, that doesn't mean all people would act like killers. There are ethical atheists.
So, what is the basis? Some people's human nature for starts. Empathy.

Originally posted by frogstomp
That poses a couple of questions :
Can an Atheist have learned the word of the kingdom by other means, and understood it.?
Can a Thiest have heard the word of the kingdom and understood it not?

Is the Bible the sole source of ethics in the world?

Originally posted by KneverKnight
Is the Bible the sole source of ethics in the world?

Of course not.
Buddhists, taoists, hindus, and many others lay claim to ethical systems based on works other than the bible.
What never ceases to amaze me is that a religion essentially based on the principle - Jesus's new commandment - that you should love your neighbour as you love yourself, or treat others as you expect to be treated, can continue to give rise to people who seem to hate others who don't correspond to their belief system.
It's one - amongst many things - that have led me to atheism in the first place.
And I should say, that as a father myself, I can quite easily say that being an atheist DOES NOT leave me without morals or an ethical system of values. Quite the opposite - it forces me to engage very closely with my values and really be able to sensibly justify them.