Originally posted by sonshipI'll tell you what sonship, I will go at this another way minus the mocking humor. I will await your critique on another thread here.
So this is your "speaking out" and not remaining silent ?
[quote] According to Obama, the reason he does not attend church is that he is too much of a distraction.
Is this the real reason?
Here are some other reasons I can think of.
1. Rev. Wright makes secret house calls.
2. Obama gets bored learning more about himself that he already knows ...[text shortened]...
[b]James 1:20 - "For the wrath of man does not accomplish the righteousness of God." [/b]
Originally posted by whodeyYou do realize Obama inherited Bush Jr's war AND insane spending? Do you realize that 700 BILLION Bush Jr. gave away, 1/3 of it ONE THIRD, totally disappeared because there was ZERO oversight on that huge gift? A lot of politicians now have great bank accounts in the Cayman Islands because of it.
I would not use the word hate, but I feel the same about him as I do Obama.
Originally posted by sonhouseYou mistake me for someone who wishes to defend "W", I don't, but blaming him for all our woes tends to get old after 6 years or so. When will our blaming him end do you reckon, or is there no end?
You do realize Obama inherited Bush Jr's war AND insane spending? Do you realize that 700 BILLION Bush Jr. gave away, 1/3 of it ONE THIRD, totally disappeared because there was ZERO oversight on that huge gift? A lot of politicians now have great bank accounts in the Cayman Islands because of it.
I picture Obama much like I do "W". To me, there is not much difference between the two other than partisan hack allegiances.
Originally posted by whodeyThe thread is about Mr Obama. You can't, in all seriousness, be comparing Adolf Hitler to President Obama.
What do you mean by Christian? For example, Hitler claimed to be a Christian. Should we then include him on the list?
If Hitler was a Christian ~ meaning he believed in the things that Christians profess to believe about Jesus, about the Christian God, and in "salvation" through Jesus' sacrifice etc. ~ then presumably he was Christian. Whether, according to Christian theology, he was able to reach "heaven", I do not know. I don't subscribe to the theology, after all. Perhaps he repented and was forgiven.
Maybe Hitler's supposed fate is a case in point for Grampy Bobby's personal theological speculation that he peddles here whereby once one is saved, even after a period of belief in Christ, one is saved and it cannot be undone.
I certainly believe that the Holocaust was something perpetrated in large part by Christians against Jews and was the culmination of 2,000 years of systematic Christian persecution of Jews, and that no amount of No True Scotsman informal fallacies can alter this.
Originally posted by FMFThe thread is about Mr Obama. You can't, in all seriousness, be comparing Adolf Hitler to President Obama.
The thread is about Mr Obama. You can't, in all seriousness, be comparing Adolf Hitler to President Obama.
If Hitler was a Christian ~ meaning he believed in the things that Christians profess to believe about Jesus, about the Christian God, and in "salvation" through Jesus' sacrifice etc. ~ then presumably he was Christian. Whether, according to Christian th ...[text shortened]... n persecution of Jews, and that no amount of No True Scotsman informal fallacies can alter this.
Actually yes, he can. You were the one making the point that we shouldn't distinguish between anyone who calls himself a Christian. If anyone calls themselves a Christian, then according to you they are Christians. So if Obama and Hitler both called themselves Christians then they must both be Christians.
But now it seems you wish to argue against this point.
Originally posted by FMF
Are all Christians "representatives of Jesus"?
Originally posted by whodey
What do you mean by Christian? For example, Hitler claimed to be a Christian. Should we then include him on the list?
He wasn't comparing Obama to Hitler, he was asking if you can compare Obama to Hitler based solely on the criteria of someone claiming to be Christian. You are the one who is essentially claiming that anyone who calls himself a Christian must be a Christian. By the same logic, if you claim to be a duck does this mean you are a duck?
quack quack quack quack quack... can you hear me now?
Originally posted by lemon limeSo can all Christians be compared to Adolf Hitler?
FMF: The thread is about Mr Obama. You can't, in all seriousness, be comparing Adolf Hitler to President Obama.
Actually yes, he can. You were the one making the point that we shouldn't distinguish between anyone who calls himself a Christian. If anyone calls themselves a Christian, then according to you they are Christians. So if Obama and Hitler both called themselves Christians then they must both be Christians.
Originally posted by lemon limeIn fact, what I said was that someone who believes Christians claims about Jesus and about the Christian God, and who believes in "salvation" through the sacrifice made by Jesus, is a Christian.
You are the one who is essentially claiming that anyone who calls himself a Christian must be a Christian.
Originally posted by lemon limeNot really. This thread is about Mr Obama and it's on the Spirituality Forum. whodey can't, in all seriousness, be comparing the political deeds of Adolf Hitler to those of President Obama, and anyway, even if he is, doesn't it belong on the Debates Forum?
FMF: The thread is about Mr Obama. You can't, in all seriousness, be comparing Adolf Hitler to President Obama.
Actually yes, he can. [...] But now it seems you wish to argue against this point.
Originally posted by FMFSo for you it doesn't matter what anyone actually does, it only matters what they say? Is this your position?
In fact, what I said was that someone who believes Christians claims about Jesus and about the Christian God, and who believes in "salvation" through the sacrifice made by Jesus, is a Christian.
Originally posted by FMFwhodey can't, in all seriousness, be comparing the political deeds of Adolf Hitler to those of President Obama
Not really. This thread is about Mr Obama and it's on the Spirituality Forum. whodey can't, in all seriousness, be comparing the political deeds of Adolf Hitler to those of President Obama, and anyway, even if he is, doesn't it belong on the Debates Forum?
He wasn't. whodey was responding to your claim that all it takes for someone to be a Christian is to say he is. He was asking if you believe Hitler was a Christian. But you've already answered that question.
Originally posted by FMFOriginally posted by FMF
So can all Christians be compared to Adolf Hitler?
So can all Christians be compared to Adolf Hitler?
That's like asking if all apples can be compared to oranges...
Yes, all apples can be compared to oranges.
This doesn't mean apples are oranges, it means they can be compared to oranges.
Originally posted by lemon limeThis just seems evasive on your part.
Originally posted by FMF
[b]So can all Christians be compared to Adolf Hitler?
That's like asking if all apples can be compared to oranges...
Yes, all apples can be compared to oranges.
This doesn't mean apples are oranges, it means they can be compared to oranges.[/b]
If Mr Obama can be compared to Adolf Hitler, because both said they were Christians, can all people who say they are Christians therefore be compared to Obama and Hitler?