what if we're all wrong?

Originally posted by Scriabin
maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was as big an egomaniac or just plan maniac as most so-called "holy men" or "prophets."

I know, I know, he's your fav -- big deal.


Verse of the Moment

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
During the pre-Islamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had commit ...[text shortened]... The Hadith, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188


What about it, going to issue a fatwa now?

maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was as big an egomaniac or just plan maniac as most so-called "holy men" or "prophets."

And what did Jesus do? Set a fig tree on fire? Oooh, helpful.

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
During the pre-Islamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had committed illegal sexual intercourse. I too, stoned it along with them.
The Hadith, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188

From the Bible:

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. "The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him." (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

What are you going to do, pour fire and brimstone on my head?

Originally posted by scherzo
You have nothing to prove that. Islam is the fastest growing religion on Earth right now.

well, there are a lot of fundamentalists in this world as well, it doesn't mean they're right.

Originally posted by generalissimo
well, there are a lot of fundamentalists in this world as well, it doesn't mean they're right.

Good point.

Originally posted by banx99
Going by that logic, since i'm no expert on the matter and in fact am an atheist (you caught me on the humanism bit), does that mean that someone who doesn't believe in Jesus and/or God, but lives his life abiding by Jesus' and God's laws, will still be damned for eternity?

I'm not trying to act silly, I am genuinely curious

No it doesn't. In my humble opinion on the matter.

Originally posted by Scriabin
And properly so -- "our God?"

what a silly idea.

You think charlatans are a good idea now do you. 🙄

Your veil of intellectualism is slipping and revealing your face of pretentiousness.

Originally posted by Scriabin
silly question

Reprise.

Originally posted by banx99
and the answer?

The questions you ask are completely valid and although you are challenging theists at least you are an athiest who seems to show some respect for other people.

I find the manner in which theists are derided in this forum by athiests as distateful as racism. Seriously - what is wrong with freedom of thought and belief??

If athiests seriously believe the thinking from the john lennon school of social harmony (...no religion too) is the answer to the worlds problems, then they are as deluded as the hippies of the sixties who thought "all you need is love"

Originally posted by divegeester

If athiests seriously believe the thinking from the john lennon school of social harmony (...no religion too) is the answer to the worlds problems, then they are as deluded as the hippies of the sixties who thought "all you need is love"

Atheists don't all believe in that. Some do and I'd agree with you that simply "getting rid of religion" isn't the simple be all and end all to the world's problems. I don't think most atheists are that naive.

Originally posted by Scriabin
maybe he wasn't. Maybe he was as big an egomaniac or just plan maniac as most so-called "holy men" or "prophets."

I know, I know, he's your fav -- big deal.


Verse of the Moment

Narrated 'Amr bin Maimun:
During the pre-Islamic period of ignorance I saw a she-monkey surrounded by a number of monkeys. They were all stoning it, because it had commit ...[text shortened]... The Hadith, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 188


What about it, going to issue a fatwa now?

Is that what they call a cheeky little monkey?

Originally posted by divegeester

If athiests seriously believe the thinking from the john lennon school of social harmony (...no religion too) is the answer to the worlds problems, then they are as deluded as the hippies of the sixties who thought "all you need is love"[/b]

Actually, I believe that all you need is love. The problem is, however, that people don't know what love is or from which it originated. If God is love, as the scriptures tell us, he is all we need. Most of the hippies I think equated sex with love. If so, prostitutes and pimps are the most loving people on the planet. LOL.

Originally posted by generalissimo
I think some of it is, but some of it is just bulls**t.

Most religions have some good points, but I don't think there is one religion that got it all right.

No offense, but who cares what you think? The fact is, if you are a finite mortal human being and some if not all your views will be skewed simply because of your finite limitations. Therefore, if one were to have the "big picture" it would have to come from a source outside the realm of finite human thought. Such a holy book, if it exists, would then inevitably come into conflict with some of your ideas or preconceived notions.

Originally posted by divegeester
If athiests seriously believe the thinking from the john lennon school of social harmony (...no religion too) is the answer to the worlds problems, then they are as deluded as the hippies of the sixties who thought "all you need is love"

I for one do not think that at all, but that is not to say I don't think that the world would be a better place without religion - I do.

Originally posted by generalissimo
What if all religions were wrong, and failed to understand what God is really about?

Maybe we didn't get what Jesus' message was all about.

If we had, our world would have been much better.

Of course, this is just a question, it may not be true, but anyway let's think out of the box just this time.

The main thing that is wrong with most organized religions is that there are priests, reverends, clerics, etc. that actively work to convince the rest of us that the only way to gain enlightenment or salvation is through them and their unique connection to whatever deity it is that they claim to represent. As a result you have accumulation of wealth and power gained at the behest of their followers and the associated abuses that go along with it.

Originally posted by Ullr
The main thing that is wrong with most organized religions is that there are priests, reverends, clerics, etc. that actively work to convince the rest of us that the only way to gain enlightenment or salvation is through them and their unique connection to whatever deity it is that they claim to represent. As a result you have accumulation of wealth and power gained at the behest of their followers and the associated abuses that go along with it.

Spot on. Organised religion is about, money, idolatry and control of the laity.

Originally posted by divegeester
The questions you ask are completely valid and although you are challenging theists at least you are an athiest who seems to show some respect for other people.

I find the manner in which theists are derided in this forum by athiests as distateful as racism. Seriously - what is wrong with freedom of thought and belief??

If athiests seriously ...[text shortened]... ems, then they are as deluded as the hippies of the sixties who thought "all you need is love"

the john lennon school of social harmony (...no religion too) is the answer to the worlds problems, then they are as deluded as the hippies of the sixties who thought "all you need is love"

Is God always associated with religion?
John lennon didn't say "and no Gods too", I think what he meant was that religion is bad, but I think he was wrong anyway.

I think "all you need is love" is in theory a good philosophy, but it doesn't work in the real world, which is quite unfortunate.