What does this mean?

@sonship said
Take "You therefore shall be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect." firstly as prediction. This is the destiny marked out for the one trusting in Jesus Christ.

From one degree of expression to the next, to the next, to the next - - "from glory to glory" the Father will with His Spirit "metabolically" transform us into the image that matches Chr ...[text shortened]... f the exhortation side - "You therefore shall be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect."

Who do you want to be:
Sheep of Jesus Christ OR
Goats of the Christian Church

The Sheep - Perfect enough for Eternal Life
... Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Naked, and ye clothed me:
I was sick, and ye visited me:
I was in prison, and ye came unto me. (Matthew 25:34-36 KJV)

The Church Goats - So faithful and boastful that they are Saved and not even God can cast them out.
.. Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat:
I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in:
naked, and ye clothed me not:
sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. (Matthew 25:41-43 KJV)

Mchill,

Just because I have not YET spoken to that aspect of the teaching does not mean I do not recognize it. If I address ALL relevant points they howl that my post is too long. And if I take a section at a time, Rajk999 will call me some name saying I failed to notice this or that.

Mchill, I will speak more later about the context of "be perfect" .
FIRST I at least recommend that you view the words as prophecy.

@sonship said
Mchill,

Just because I have not YET spoken to that aspect of the teaching does not mean I do not recognize it. If I address ALL relevant points they howl that my post is too long. And if I take a section at a time, Rajk999 will call me some name saying I failed to notice this or that.

Mchill, I will speak more later about the context of "be perfect" .
FIRST I at least recommend that you view the words as prophecy.

Mchill is intelligent enough to read what Jesus said in Matt 5 and understand where Jesus was coming from. He was just creating a topic for conversation. He does not need your bogus interpretations which bear no resemblance to what Jesus said.

@sonship said
Rajk999, ever eager to disagree with me writes:

[quote] Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: fo ...[text shortened]... erence to context I agree with the poster. The perfection is related to love, forgiveness, and care.

You are a dunce. A dunce is a man who reads but fails to understand simple english. Jesus explained what he meant in Matt 5. You read it and proceeded to interpret it so that the meaning is the total opposite of what Jesus said.

Mchill,

I hope my writing did not give you some kind of feeling that your intelligence was being insulted.

I am just fellowshipping what I think would be helpful in getting into a profound passage.

Prove all things and hold fast to that which is good.
Be back latter.

The things which Jesus directs His disciples to do in Matthew 5 - 8 require Christ living within you.

Try it without Him and see how far you get.

Can you turn the other cheek?
Can you refrain from calling brothers in Jesus ugly names?

Can you be not anxious about your living?
Can you not look at a woman a second time with no lust in your hearts?

C'mon guys. You know we're all exposed by Jesus' teaching.
We're all through guys. So we need the divine life of "the heavenly" Daddy
The heavenly Father whose nature can be imparted into us through Jesus Christ.

There is One person in the universe who can live this way - the Speaker - Jesus.
And His Father has to become our Father too.

Now if you are fool hearty and full of self confidence like Rajk999 is you may have foolish confidence that you can be perfect as the heavenly Father is perfect even if you're an atheist - just do some good deeds and sneer self-righteously at all the Christians in money grubbing churches.

For those who realize that what Jesus demands there is impossible, that will force them to come to Jesus for GRACE to empower them. Rajk999 despises grace.

@sonship said
The things which Jesus directs His disciples to do in Matthew 5 - 8 require Christ living within you. Try it without Him and see how far you get.

Of course you are correct as usual

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Try it without Me and see how far you get. (Matthew 5:48 SSB [Sonships Satanic Bible])

There is nowhere Jesus said what you are saying. Why dont you shut up instead of misleading people.

I will shut up for awhile if you do the following:

1.) Confess before the universe "Jesus is Lord" .

2.) Confess before the universe that you believe in the bodily and physical resurrection of Jersus Christ from the dead as the New Testament Teaches.

3.) Tell us if the Logos in John 1:1 was God or just "a god".

4.) Tell us unambiguously that the Holy Spirit is more than a force but a Person who can be "grieved" - "Grieve not the Holy Spirit of God" (Eph. 4:40)


I'll shut up for awhile if you do not evade those simple questions but indicate where you stand without obfuscation and name calling as a filler and distraction.

But since I suspect that you will reply with various and sundry excuses I will not have to "shut up".

@sonship said
I will shut up for awhile if you do the following:

1.) Confess before the universe "Jesus is Lord" .

2.) Confess before the universe that you believe in the bodily and physical resurrection of Jersus Christ from the dead as the New Testament Teaches.

3.) Tell us if the Logos in John 1:1 was God or just "a god".

[b]4. ...[text shortened]... ut since I suspect that you will reply with various and sundry excuses I will not have to "shut up".

I dont ask, neither do I answer questions.
I dont offer personal information, neither do I ask others to offer personal information.
I dont demand other say certain things, neither do I succumb to such demands from others.

I operate at a different [far superior] level to you sonship.
Spiritually are a small fry and a weakling.

@Rajk999

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. Try it without Me and see how far you get. (Matthew 5:48 SSB [Sonships Satanic Bible])

There is nowhere Jesus said what you are saying. Why dont you shut up instead of misleading people.

In John 17:21-23 Jesus asked His Father that the saints would be PERFECTED. So they CANNOT Be made perfect or perfected WITHOUT the Triune God's operation. Christ must be the One living WITHIN.

"And the glory which You have given Me I have given to them, that they may be one even as We are one.

I in them and You in Me, that they may be PERFECTED into one, . . . " (See John 17:21-23)

There is no being PERFECTED without Jesus Christ LIVING and perfecting in the believers and the Father living in Him.

Once again that you are a false teacher bringing "another Jesus" and doctrines of demons is exposed. You need to repent.

Did you get that? " I IN THEM, AND YOU [Father] IN ME, that they may be PERFECTED . . . "

@sonship said

Did you get that? " I IN THEM, AND YOU [Father] IN ME, that they may be PERFECTED . . . "

You really cannot read. A few verses before in the same John 17, Jesus spoke of Judas Iscariot who was lost. Are you saying that God was a failure and could not have Judas PERFECTED ??

God does not go about forcing people to be perfect, or making evil sinful people perfect. Clearly you missed the point of what Jesus was praying for. You dont get to sit there and do nothing, proclaiming to have GRACE, proclaiming you are SAVED, and think all is well and God will make you perfect.

If that is what you get out of Jesus's teachings then you are just another lost soul like Judas Iscariot.

@medullah said
Man was perfect until Adam sinned. On the basis of the mosaic law “soul will be for soul” a provision was made for an exchange or ransom - which is why Jesus gave his life.

God did not create flawed beings, but after Satan successfully tempted Eve, a plan “b” was needed. Once the current situation is dealt with I’m confident that the original purpose for the earth and mankind will be realised.

It was easy for Adam to be perfect, since there were no enemies he had to love, no beggars in need he had to give to, no brethren who had strayed from the path whom he had gently to chastize, . . . all he had to do was: not listen to his wife.
















Oh, wait, maybe it wasn't easy.

@rajk999 said
Satan apparently messed with all of Gods creation, not just Adam and Eve. When the restoration of the Earth takes place even the animals will be at peace. This is the purpose of the 1000 yr reign of Christ.

I believe that you are right.

Isaiah give us a nice insight as how we will be at peace with the animals as you have spoken at 11:6

"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat, the calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them."

I love animals, cried my eyes out when the dog died three weeks ago. Can't wait for a time when you can have a Bengal Tiger as your bestie ;-)

@sonship said


For those who realize that what Jesus demands there is impossible, that will force them to come to Jesus for GRACE to empower them. Rajk999 despises grace.

This is true at the moment. Jesus showed that a perfect man would uphold the law, and there it wasn't unreasonable to expect Adam to do so.

During the 1000 year reign that Raj spoke of man is restored to perfection and will be able to live according to God's standards.

Between Raj's post and Son's post, we have a good understanding of the situation.

Is "Grace" a bit like The Rapture and The Trinity? Short answers appreciated without cutting and pasting.

@moonbus

I do like a bit of humour injected into these threads LOL