Spirituality
02 Apr 13
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by caissad4Well the reason we need saved is due to our sins before a Holy God, if we
Jesus (God) died to save us from himself (God).
Jesus (God) sacrificed himself (God) to save us from eternal damnation which he (God) would inflict upon us. 🙄🙄🙄
had not sinned there would have been no need to be saved. Eternal damnation
or forgiveness both come from God, Jesus sacrificed Himself to justify us
before God, otherwise we would die in our own sins, sealing our fate.
Kelly
Originally posted by caissad4What atheism really says:
Jesus (God) died to save us from himself (God).
Jesus (God) sacrificed himself (God) to save us from eternal damnation which he (God) would inflict upon us.
There is nothing other than this life
There is this earth then nothing
There is no future for mankind
There is no god
There is no 'morality'
Do what you please
Theism is the source of strife
Godlessness is the only way forward
The evidence speaks for itself
Originally posted by divegeesterI agree with all of that except the 'no morality' bit. I think some atheists have a superior morality than some of the ones pushed by theists, but neither group have a single view on the matter.
What atheism really says:
There is nothing other than this life
There is this earth then nothing
There is no future for mankind
There is no god
There is no 'morality'
Do what you please
Theism is the source of strife
Godlessness is the only way forward
The evidence speaks for itself
Originally posted by twhiteheadI agree with all this except for 'morality' as a concept outside of God. Much of the moral code we adhere to stems from theistic sources, without this atheism is as I said "do whatever pleases yourself".
I agree with all of that except the 'no morality' bit. I think some atheists have a superior morality than some of the ones pushed by theists, but neither group have a single view on the matter.
Edit however I accept that many atheists behave in a more moral way than some theists. But this is not because of an atheistic originated morality.
02 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterOnly the worst parts. The parts I would label 'immoral'.
Much of the moral code we adhere to stems from theistic sources,
without this atheism is as I said "do whatever pleases yourself".
That depends entirely on what you understand 'pleases yourself' to mean. Do you for example follow the Bibles teachings because it 'pleases yourself'? If a loved one was in danger, would you do something to help because it 'pleases yourself', because the Bible told you to, or would you have some other motivation?
Edit however I accept that many atheists behave in a more moral way than some theists. But this is not because of an atheistic originated morality.
I don't think atheism can originate morality. Atheism is the lack of belief in God/gods. It is not a philosophical system of thought, or religion. Better to say 'secular originated morality' as in 'morality not based on religion' as opposed to 'morality based on a lack of religion'.
My moral code does not stem from theistic sources.
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadOnly the worst parts. The parts I would label 'immoral'.
Only the worst parts. The parts I would label 'immoral'.
[b]without this atheism is as I said "do whatever pleases yourself".
That depends entirely on what you understand 'pleases yourself' to mean. Do you for example follow the Bibles teachings because it 'pleases yourself'? If a loved one was in danger, would you do something to help because it ...[text shortened]... sed on a lack of religion'.
My moral code does not stem from theistic sources.[/b]
Don't steal?
Don't murder?
Don't covet?
Don't commit adultery?
Helping a loved one is not 'morality', it is self serving behavior, you would know this being an evolutionist.
It is not a philosophical system of thought...
I disagree,atheism is fast becoming a philosophical system of thinking; you prefer to hold to the default position that atheist is neutral, it is not; hence you (an al the other atheists) being here in this forum preaching against theism, many of who have openly admitted to wanting to convert theists to atheists.
My moral code does not stem from theistic sources.
Naive to say the least; see my first points above.
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by twhiteheadre - My moral code does not stem from theistic sources
Only the worst parts. The parts I would label 'immoral'.
[b]without this atheism is as I said "do whatever pleases yourself".
That depends entirely on what you understand 'pleases yourself' to mean. Do you for example follow the Bibles teachings because it 'pleases yourself'? If a loved one was in danger, would you do something to help because it ...[text shortened]... sed on a lack of religion'.
My moral code does not stem from theistic sources.[/b]
with respect i think they might - european pagans were a bit shocking - wicker men for example - that was real. I thought the christians forced them - bullied them into converting but if you read about what the pagans believed it would be very easy to convert them with no force at all, as soon a christianity was around they liked it a lot more - it was a lot more kind, rational and lacking needless sacrifices.
Rome - well organised but lacking a cohesive religion - also a bit shocking
Secular folk don't like hearing it but they do have christian morals, they would have roman morals otherwise. thats how i see it.
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by divegeesterYou needed the Bible to tell you those? Utter nonsense. In fact I notice you carefully picked them because you knew that I would agree that they are moral, because you know they do not originated from theistic sources.
[b]Only the worst parts. The parts I would label 'immoral'.
Don't steal?
Don't murder?
Don't covet?
Don't commit adultery?[/b]
Helping a loved one is not 'morality', it is self serving behavior, you would know this being an evolutionist.
So you would do it because it 'pleases yourself'? Or would you not do it? I did not claim it was morality, I wanted to clarify what you meant by 'pleases yourself' and to establish whether you also 'Do what you please' on occasion.
I disagree,atheism is fast becoming a philosophical system of thinking;
So we are talking about some hypothetical future you dreamed up? When did it start 'becoming'? How long will it take?
...you prefer to hold to the default position that atheist is neutral, it is not; hence you (an al the other atheists) being here in this forum preaching against theism, many of who have openly admitted to wanting to convert theists to atheists.
Atheism in a world of atheists is neutral. It is not something I would base a moral code on.
Naive to say the least; see my first points above.
Sorry, but do you seriously think those came from theism? Prior to some stone tablets in the desert, everybody stole, murdered, coveted and committed adultery? And you call me naive?
02 Apr 13
Originally posted by caissad4yes, if you simplify it to extremes, and pay no attention to nuances, you commit the same mistake the fundamentalists make.
Jesus (God) died to save us from himself (God).
Jesus (God) sacrificed himself (God) to save us from eternal damnation which he (God) would inflict upon us. 🙄🙄🙄
so congrats, you are no better than rjhinds.
02 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by twhiteheadSo you would do it because it 'pleases yourself'? Or would you not do it? I did not claim it was morality, I wanted to clarify what you meant by 'pleases yourself' and to establish whether you also 'Do what you please' on occasion
You needed the Bible to tell you those? Utter nonsense. In fact I notice you carefully picked them because you knew that I would agree that they are moral, because you know they do not originated from theistic sources.
[b]Helping a loved one is not 'morality', it is self serving behavior, you would know this being an evolutionist.
So you would do ert, everybody stole, murdered, coveted and committed adultery? And you call me naive?[/b]
Why is it evolutionists love to claim scientific superiority except where their personal sense of altruism is at stake. Amusing.
So we are talking about some hypothetical future you dreamed up? When did it start 'becoming'? How long will it take?
Carry on ignoring my points about you and other atheists being here trying to 'covert' theists if you wish. In answer to your [usual] defensive pedantry. Now it is now.
Atheism in a world of atheists is neutral. It is not something I would base a moral code on.
Avoiding the same point twice in one post!
Sorry, but do you seriously think those came from theism? Prior to some stone tablets in the desert, everybody stole, murdered, coveted and committed adultery? And you call me naive?
As a scientist I'm sure you will have evidence to support your position?
Lol resorting to "some stone tablets in the desert" as a mechanism to ridicule my point is water off of a ducks back mate!