Originally posted by HandyAndy
But suppose Hell is this particular message board.

Ha well yes. Loki was wandering and met Angrboða, they had three children - the world serpent Jörmungandr, the wolf Fenrir, and a daughter called Hel. Wodin gave Hel authority over the part of the underworld for those who died a natural death of sickness or old age.

Originally posted by DeepThought
I had a conversation with GrampyBobby about this before. That was never my understanding of the deal. One has to repent of one's sins. That means trying not to commit them. Being human we fail, so we need God's grace to make up for our imperfection. But the position the actual Christians, at least around here, seem to have is that believing is enoug ...[text shortened]... l one has to do is accept the gift and hey Presto! In which case why get het up about morality?

Grampy Bobby is one of the weakest 'conversationalists' among the regulars here, being ~ as he is ~ more intent upon pontificating and using various devices and cop-outs from his little bag of passive aggressive rhetorical tricks, than he is engaging [most] people with sincerity.

In response to me saying that I used to be a Christian and now not being one, and being an unbeliever instead, he has variously told me I am saved [because I once believed and accepted the gift] and there's nothing I can do to change that, AND he has pontificated that unbelievers [presumably those that have never believed, even for an instant] will be tortured in burning agony for eternity by way of punishment and revenge.

I have heard both these things several times in what passed for 'conversation' in the past. He has never stooped to explain to me the flat contradiction inherent in his pontifications, and one occasion, when pressed on it, he declared himself to be "immune to human criticism". I think he just likes declaring stuff plucked from his imagination and claiming it applies to people.

Good for you if you've managed to wring a 'conversation' out of him that wasn't ~ on his part ~ furtive, deflecting and, ultimately, deeply incoherent. 🙂

Originally posted by JS357
"There's no such place as eternity"

Sorry, is that an example of a simple statement?

"Why doesn't it simply say: "On the basis of empiricism and/or rationalism, God doesn't exist. Faith in Christ? No. There's no such place as eternity"? Thoughts?" (OP) JS, the first sentence in quotation marks represents a logical statement of negative volition to establish a premise. The second and third represent its conclusions without resorting to the use of its weapons.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Thanks for the advice, twhitehead.

You should also consider ceasing your somewhat rude habit of thanking people for their comments whilst totally ignoring what they said.

Originally posted by divegeester
Sorry GB but this is 200 words when 20 are needed.

1) Christians/atheists/both (that's the easy bit)

2) It's hypothetical/no it's real and here are 2 examples...

Without this level of granularity your premise is just as twhitehead says, "waffle".

Any further questions?

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Any further questions?

Only that as you said in my response to you earlier in the thread "it's hardly hypothetical", I guess I'm still waiting for the "specific examples" so we can actually debate whatever it is you have on your mind.

Originally posted by josephw (Page 2)
No room in the inn.

"Weapons of negative volition" are symptoms of emotionalism. When an atheist encounters the proposition that the universe was created by God they immediately resort to a defensive posture with the club of superiority. Anything a theist may say is attacked in a variety of ways, not the least of which is undisguised hatred.

"Weapons of negative volition" are symptoms of emotionalism."

Two questions, Joe: What specific emotions? and To what extent do theists exhibit the same "symptoms of emotionalism" when reacting rather than responding to other people, misunderstood, misapplied or uncomfortable truths in God's Word ?

Originally posted by josephw (Page 2)
I really don't think "eternity" can be grasped by the mind in an appreciable way. Our minds are primarily accustomed to time as a measure of passing existence. Beyond our lifespan is a place not measured by time.

It's called eternity.

Eternity is the absence of time; the destination of all human beings; and a place since it will be with or separated from God.

Originally posted by Great King Rat (Page 2)
Well, I'll be damned. A GB sentence that is actually understandable without having to read it a dozen or more times.

Amazing.

Maybe twhitehead's timely mentoring and your words of encouragement are having early results... If so, I thank you both.

Originally posted by divegeester
Only that as you said in my response to you earlier in the thread "it's hardly hypothetical", I guess I'm still waiting for the "specific examples" so we can actually debate whatever it is you have on your mind.

"2) "Is this a hypothetical premise, or are you seeking to discuss a specific example?" Hardly hypothetical; it's as literal as any empirical online phenomena on this spirituality forum. As stated in my reply to DT: "It [the OP] contains six questions without a declarative statement because its purpose is to stimulate discussion which results in an understanding of the online behaviours used to defensively and offensively say "no". (Page 1 reply to you)

Originally posted by divegeester
Only that as you said in my response to you earlier in the thread "it's hardly hypothetical", I guess I'm still waiting for the "specific examples" so we can actually debate whatever it is you have on your mind.

The purpose of this thread is "to stimulate discussion which results in an understanding of the online behaviours used to defensively and offensively say "no". If by "specific examples" you're inviting a list of site nicknames, no thanks. I politely decline. As a believer in Christ my responsibility is to provide accurate biblical information and encouragement not to criticize and embarrass others for their real or imagined shortcomings. Scan the most controversial topic threads on this forum for specific examples of "Weapons of Negative Volition" behaviours used defensively and offensively to oppose the truth.

Originally posted by twhitehead
You should also consider ceasing your somewhat rude habit of thanking people for their comments whilst totally ignoring what they said.

I'm grateful for all contributors and take them seriously as long as their comments are relevant to the topic. Trolls I ignore.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
Scan the most controversial topic threads on this forum for specific examples of "Weapons of Negative Volition" behaviours used defensively and offensively to oppose the truth.

So before I can debate you I have to do your research for you; and when I've done that you'd rather I commented about those specific examples that you lack the courage to address; and instead you would rather sit at a safe distance and pontificate upon these through a sort of veil of feigned humility and public service...?

No thanks.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
I'm grateful for all contributors and take them seriously as long as their comments are relevant to the topic. Trolls I ignore.

You say you are grateful and take comments seriously, but you do not act on them. You could start by reposting the OP in actually intelligible English. You either do not want a discussion about the OP, or you do not realize that it is not intelligible to the vast majority of readers - despite the large number of responses to that effect.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
I can't think of any place that is measured by time.
(unless you are talking about time to cross a city in rush hour)

"I can't think of any place that is measured by time."

A "place" where we measure time is here where we exist in space on this planet. We count the time in terms of seconds, minutes, hours etc. We measure the passing of time in relation to the duration of our existence.

Outside of this dimension of space, matter and time is eternity.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Weapons of negative volition" are symptoms of emotionalism."

Two questions, Joe: What specific emotions? and To what extent do theists exhibit the same "symptoms of emotionalism" when reacting rather than responding to other people, misunderstood, misapplied or uncomfortable truths in God's Word ?

"What specific emotions?"

Any emotion that interferes with rational objective inquiry for the sake of the truth.

Theists are subject to the same.