13 Dec 05
I heard it claimed that Luke is the only Gospel that describes a virgin birth. None of the others state that Mary is a virgin. Is this the case?
Further, the source from which I heard this explained it by observing that Luke was Greek, and came from a culture in which virgin births were a mythological staple.
Comment.
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI don't believe in jesus, mary or any of that crap but u think that someone that was supposed to be married was a virgin, hmmm don't think so!
I heard it claimed that Luke is the only Gospel that describes a virgin birth. None of the others state that Mary is a virgin. Is this the case?
Further, the source from which I heard this explained it by observing that Luke was Greek, and came from a culture in which virgin births were a mythological staple.
Comment.
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesMatthew and Luke are the only two gospels that record the birth of Jesus.
I heard it claimed that Luke is the only Gospel that describes a virgin birth. None of the others state that Mary is a virgin. Is this the case?
Further, the source from which I heard this explained it by observing that Luke was Greek, and came from a culture in which virgin births were a mythological staple.
Comment.
Matthew 1:18-25:
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.
But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit. She will give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus, because he will save his people from their sins."
All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had said through the prophet: "The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and they will call him Immanuel"—which means, "God with us."
When Joseph woke up, he did what the angel of the Lord had commanded him and took Mary home as his wife. But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by joelekThis does not state or entail that Mary is a virgin.
Matthew and Luke are the only two gospels that record the birth of Jesus.
Matthew 1:18-25:
This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, [b]she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit. Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not wa ...[text shortened]... But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.[/b]
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesWith that outlook, neither does Luke. Luke only states that she was a virgin when the angel came to her. That was before she was pregnant. And it states that the child would be of the Holy Spirit. But it doesn't specifically say that she was a virgin at the time of Jesus' birth.
This does not state or entail that Mary is a virgin.
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by joelekDoes it state or entail that she was a virgin at the time of conception?
With that outlook, neither does Luke. Luke only states that she was a virgin when the angel came to her. That was before she was pregnant. And it states that the child would be of the Holy Spirit. But it doesn't specifically say that she was a virgin at the time of Jesus' birth.
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribbles"Mary" is an anthropomorphization of the constellation Virgo.
Comment.
http://www.indigosun.com/Dec2000/winter_solstice.htm
Thus evolved the ancient religions of the Sun Gods. These "Sun" religions abound with legends of a Solar Man Ancient religious traditions teem with stories about the Hindu Sun God Krishna, the Egyptian Horus, the Greek Helios, the Persian Mithra, the Druidic Hesus, and the Nordic Yule. The birthday of these "Sun Gods" or "Solar Men" (whether they lived or not) was celebrated on December 25. They were often referred to as "The Light of the World" or "The Savior of the World" from darkness. These "Solar Men", part divine and part human, were said to have been born of a virgin. On December 25, the constellation Virgo (the virgin) is at its peak ascendancy, i.e., the re-birth of the sun occurs under the influence of Virgo. When the constellation Virgo (the virgin) is in its ascendancy, it influences and causes the rise, the birth, of the sun. Certain Sun God celebrations included striking and dramatic scenes of a divine babe (the sun at its weakest or re-born) in a manger and a mother beside it. Communal rituals, such as midnight services on December 24, were celebrated in grottos, cave temples or virgin temples with blazes of candles and clouds of incense. In the morning, after praying all night, the people burst into rejoicing because the virgin "had given birth to the Eternal" (the Divine Child of the Sun). These motifs of the Sun God religions would eventually find their way into the Christian tradition.
Sorry, I don't have any Bible quotes for you.
13 Dec 05
1 edit
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesI assume by "it" you mean Luke's account. And I would say NO.
Does it state or entail that she was a virgin at the time of conception?
It states that she claimed to be a virgin when the angel made the announcement, at which point she was not yet pregnant. "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" And within the next 3 months she was pregnant with Jesus.
[Of course, I am simply answering your questions. I have absolutely no doubt that Mary was a virgin when Jesus was born, let alone conceived (though abstaining from sex throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by joelekJoelek: (though being a virgin throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]
I assume by "it" you mean Luke's account. And I would say NO.
It states that she claimed to be a virgin when the angel made the announcement, at which point she was not yet pregnant. "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" And within the next 3 months she was pregnant with Jesus.
[Of course, I am simply answer ...[text shortened]... ed (though being a virgin throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]
WTF? How old are you? You think pregnant women don't have sex?😲
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by David CAlmost makes one think the stars have something to do with the overall presentation of the story, huh?
"Mary" is an anthropomorphization of the constellation Virgo.
http://www.indigosun.com/Dec2000/winter_solstice.htm
Thus evolved the ancient religions of the Sun Gods. These "Sun" religions abound with legends of a Solar Man Ancient religious traditions teem with stories about the Hindu Sun God Krishna, the Egyptian Horus, the Greek Helios ...[text shortened]... way into the Christian tradition.
Sorry, I don't have any Bible quotes for you.
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by DoctorScribblesLet's not forget Genesis.
I heard it claimed that Luke is the only Gospel that describes a virgin birth. None of the others state that Mary is a virgin. Is this the case?
Further, the source from which I heard this explained it by observing that Luke was Greek, and came from a culture in which virgin births were a mythological staple.
Comment.
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by no1marauderWell, I've got a 14 month old and a 2 1/2 year old, so I have a pretty good idea. I was referring to the above post, quoting Matthew, where it states Joseph and Mary did not have sex throughout the pregnancy.
Joelek: (though being a virgin throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]
WTF? How old are you? You think pregnant women don't have sex?😲
I was just pointing out that being a virgin at conception, not at birth, is the miracle (even though she was a virgin at birth).
13 Dec 05
Originally posted by joelekActually, Matthew 1:25 of the NLV says "she remained a virgin until her son was born."
I assume by "it" you mean Luke's account. And I would say NO.
It states that she claimed to be a virgin when the angel made the announcement, at which point she was not yet pregnant. "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?" And within the next 3 months she was pregnant with Jesus.
[Of course, I am simply answer ...[text shortened]... hough abstaining from sex throughout the pregnancy obviously has nothing to do with a miracle).]
This is logically different than the version you gave, which states, "But he had no union with her until she gave birth to a son."
I could construct various scenarios in which one holds but not the other.
I imagine my source was referring to the original Greek text regarding Luke's unique account of virgin birth. Can anybody comment on that?