@secondson said
The scriptures are talking to you. Unfortunately the NWT isn't a translation but a corruption of God's Word.

Read William P. Grady's book titled Final Authority. Don't tell your JW friends you're reading it because then you'd be considered a heretic for opening your mind to the Devil.

@Galveston75
...Or read Apocalypse Delayed by James Penton.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/1442616059

Of course you won’t, because you’re not allowed to, are you?
That’s a sign of cult you know...just saying.

@secondson said
The scriptures are talking to you. Unfortunately the NWT isn't a translation but a corruption of God's Word.

Read William P. Grady's book titled Final Authority. Don't tell your JW friends you're reading it because then you'd be considered a heretic for opening your mind to the Devil.

Well thanks. If it's from the mind of the devil then I'll make sure and pass. Right?

@galveston75 said
Well thanks. If it's from the mind of the devil then I'll make sure and pass. Right?

Is it possible for there to be any text written which criticises the Jehovah’s Witness organisation, and is NOT “from the mind of the devil”?

Is it at all possible?

@divegeester said
@Galveston75
...Or read Apocalypse Delayed by James Penton.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Apocalypse-Delayed-Story-Jehovahs-Witnesses/dp/1442616059

Of course you won’t, because you’re not allowed to, are you?
That’s a sign of cult you know...just saying.

And why not?. It's my God Jehovah protecting us from demon inspired info. You see it does exactly what it's done to you. You're so mixed up with your beliefs, you have no idea what the truths are in the bible.
And your friend FMF is even beyond you in the sense he's given up on God himself with all the doubts he's heard and read over the years.
Just exactly what Satan uses, "doubt", even just a little as that's all it takes.
Isn't a little doubt from Satan all it took for Adam & Eve to make the mistake they did????

@galveston75 said
And why not?. It's my God Jehovah protecting us from demon inspired info.

Do you think that you telling me that you won’t read ANY material which might criticise the Watchtower organisation, because it is “Jehovah protecting you from the mind of the Devil”, reinforces or dismantles mine, or anyone else’s perspective that you are under the influence of a cult?

@galveston75 said
You see it does exactly what it's done to you. You're so mixed up with your beliefs, you have no idea what the truths are in the bible.

I assure you that I am not mixed up in my beliefs at all.

I have been a Christian for over 30 years. I am non denominational but consider myself a member of the church of Christ. I am absolutely clear in what I do believe and why I believe it, however there is a huge amount of stuff which I am not certain about and which I still seek truth about.

@galveston75 said
Just exactly what Satan uses, "doubt", even just a little as that's all it takes.
Isn't a little doubt from Satan all it took for Adam & Eve to make the mistake they did????

Are you equating you reading ANYTHING which might criticise your religious organisation with what happened in the garden of Eden?

Are you so bound up in fear that exposing yourself to someone else’s thoughts will demonise you?

Is your faith in your church so brittle, so vulnerable that reading someone’s critique of it will destroy it?

@divegeester said
I assure you that I am not mixed up in my beliefs at all.

I have been a Christian for over 30 years. I am non denominational but consider myself a member of the church of Christ. I am absolutely clear in what I do believe and why I believe it, however there is a huge amount of stuff which I am not certain about and which I still seek truth about.

Well there's the difference between your religion and mine. You say there is a huge amount of things you are in doubt about and looking for the truth.
I am 100% sure of what I believe with the JW's There are no mysteries or confusions. For ones who are on the other side of the fence so to speak I know that seems impossible. But it's not. Two major points that the Bible says, yes in your bible too, is this....
Remember the scriptures that say that "he would have a people for his name, which is Jehovah, not Jesus. We are Jehovah's Witnesses.
The bible also says that his people would be in full and complete agreement. Today every Kingdom Hall on the planet teaches the same exact thing. You can ask me a question about any scripture, you will get my answer. Then go to any country on the planet and ask any JW the same question and you'll get the same answer.
Now try that with any other religion.
The reason that has to be a real point is you can only have 1 truth on a subject. Remember the Bible also says the bible is not open to private interpretation.
So ones like yourself may know many things in the Bible but many of those are what YOU think. Maybe your close, maybe not. But the bible clearly indicates that all his people would be of one belief. That is what truth means within a group of people that worship Jehovah.
You believe one thing, FMF believes another, Rajk believes another on a particular doctrine. But yet you all never agree. So at least two of you are wrong.
So since you say you don't understand it all yet, how can you argue against a very large group of people that all believe exactly the same just as the bible says it would be towards the time of the end of this system? Just because you disagree doesn't mean your right? You say you don't know it all, Right?

@galveston75 said
I am 100% sure of what I believe with the JW's There are no mysteries or confusions.

You say that like it's a good thing.

(I may start a thread on this later...)

@galveston75 said
Well there's the difference between your religion and mine. You say there is a huge amount of things you are in doubt about and looking for the truth.I am 100% sure of what I believe with the JW's There are no mysteries or confusions.

I’m happy with this differentiation; I am not certain of many things and I still seek God’s wisdom in these things.

You on the other hand think you know it all. You have been TOLD what is the truth, you have not had to seek God for yourself and you rely on what you are TOLD by your superiors.

Within your religion there are loads of confusions, I point them out to you all the time, it’s why you hate me so much. Here is the main confusion in your religion:

You have multiple Gods, two in particular Jehovah who is “Almighty God” and Jesus who is “Might God”.

The version of Jesus in your scenario is your saviour and Jehovah is also your saviour. They are separate beings. You therefore have 2 Savours.

Your version of Jesus is also an angel. So one of your saviours who is also one of your Gods, Mighty God, is also an angel!

Multiple Gods
2 saviours
1 saviour is an angel

But no confusion!!

Let’s not forget the bullying through disfellowship, the child sacrifice and the covering up of child sex abuse.

Let’s also not forget that I am the ONLY person to properly address your blood thread.

You are here debating me know because it suits your pride, but you won’t debate me there because you cannot answer my simple question.

Not very impressive Galveston75.

@divegeester said
I’m happy with this differentiation; I am not certain of many things and I still seek God’s wisdom in these things.

You on the other hand think you know it all. You have been TOLD what is the truth, you have not had to seek God for yourself and you rely on what you are TOLD by your superiors.

Within your religion there are loads of confusions, I point them out to ...[text shortened]... t debate me there because you cannot answer my simple question.

Not very impressive Galveston75.

Sorry buddy, it's not us that's confused as to what we believe, it's you.

@divegeester said
What an excellent analogy.

Or is it a metaphor...or an analogy of a metaphor...

Anyway, good one.

Thanks for that.

I think it could be an analogy for a metaphor. As long as it works though, right?

@galveston75 said
Well thanks. If it's from the mind of the devil then I'll make sure and pass. Right?

William P. Grady was a devout Christian and a Greek and Hebrew scholar and theologian.

Have you ever read a book by such a one? Because there are none at the Watchtower.

If you're afraid of "the mind of the devil", then you had better get away from them.

@secondson said
William P. Grady was a devout Christian and a Greek and Hebrew scholar and theologian.

Have you ever read a book by such a one? Because there are none at the Watchtower.

If you're afraid of "the mind of the devil", then you had better get away from them.

What you need to consider is this. Most JW's used to be of other religions. My mother for example was raised Baptist. She knew from an early age that so much of what was told to them by the man on the stage made no sense. As she got older she questioned a few things but could never get the answers.
Once while I was in the field ministry or door to door I had a Catholic priest answer the door. My presentation of the day was about a subject in Revelation. I had hardly started and when I went to Revelation to read him the scripture he immediately told me he does not discuss that book in the Bible. I asked him why and he said it is to controversial and to be frank, he didn't know how to explain most of it.
So this is what my mother faced too when she was a teenager. No one could come up with answers especially when it came to the trinity for example.
So no I don't have to go out and read some other mans opinions on the Bible. And that's all it would be.
And yes I've glanced at other books about the bible and usually within about 20 seconds I can easily see that it is just another opinion and usually they get so much wrong it's almost funny.
The bible says that Satan is the ruler of this world which is why it's so screwed up. So why wouldn't he use men that don't have the truths of Jehovah and are only spouting off their opinion?

@galveston75 said
Sorry buddy, it's not us that's confused as to what we believe, it's you.

Feel free to point out whichever part I got wrong AND why, instead of running away from it.