The Structure of Revelation 14

Originally posted by divegeester
Then stop being a self-important bore.

He needs to stop casting his pearls before swine is what he needs to do.

The important point about the first of the seven sections, I think, is that though physical rapture is indicated, it is not described in detail.

Notice that it just shows these people standing before God in heaven.

" And I saw, and behold, the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with Him a hundred and forty-four thousand, having His name and the name of His Father written on their foreheads." (Rev. 14:1)

The ownership of the Father and the Lamb's name upon their foreheads here will be in contrast to the mark of Antichrist the beast on the head and/or hands of the Satanic worshippers of the Antichrist in verse 9 -

"And another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand ..."

The world situation is headed towards a polarization. At one extreme are those drawn into the champion of godless humanity and the Satan worshipping substitute instituted instead of the Son of God. The other side are those who will "follow the Lamb wherever He goes." (v.4)

They are taken physically to the one Who lives within them as the Spirit Who has led them. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God mature from children to sons of God. And sons of God become co-heirs with Christ and heirs of God.

Paul speaks of the learning to follow the Spirit of Christ dispensed into man.

" For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God. ... and if children, heirs also; on the one hand, heirs of God; on the other, joint heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him that we may also be glorified with Him." (Rom. 8:14,17)

The limited number, 144.000, indicates not a remnant saved, but a remnant matured and still living on the earth by that time.

In other words, God has had some saints individually mature throughout the centuries. They died in their walk with Christ and are waiting in Paradise for resurrection. But not all will have this experience.

Some believers in Christ will be alive upon the earth and together reach a corporate critical mass. This remnant will be mature yet alive just before the great tribulation. They follow the Lamb. They follow the Spirit. And suddenly they are taken physically to where their heart has been while on earth, right into the presence of the Father and Christ in the third heavens.

We all have a chance to learn to receive the Spirit of Christ AND to follow the Spirit of Christ. Everyone reading this post probably has a opportunity still to learn to live in Christ, unto Christ, and by Christ growing in the joy of following Jesus Christ.

Originally posted by whodey
He needs to stop casting his pearls before swine is what he needs to do.

I agree. But this new medium does not force "swine" to not be present.

On a moderated Forum some control may be exercised in this way.
As it stands, this Forum is wide open to everyone pretty much.

Let FMF jump around waving his hands - "You're wasting effort. No one listens. No one benefits."

We can expect the militant Atheist to say things like that.

Originally posted by sonship to whodey
I agree. But this new medium does not force "swine" to not be present.

On a moderated Forum some control may be exercised in this way.
As it stands, this Forum is wide open to everyone pretty much.

But this is a moderated forum, sonship, and you certainly could "force swine to not be present" if you had a case. Did you alert those of my posts, in each case, which you believed may have been part of me supposedly causing "hundreds of people" here who read them to face eternal torture after they pass away?

Originally posted by sonship
I agree. But this new medium does not force "swine" to not be present.
On a moderated Forum some control may be exercised in this way.

Did you complain to the moderators about DeepThought and me supposedly behaving like "holocaust deniers" (i.e. not having the same beliefs about Jesus as you)?

Originally posted by whodey
He needs to stop casting his pearls before swine is what he needs to do.

Describe one "pearl" of sonship's which has personally blessed you?

Originally posted by sonship
Good morning.
All due respect, I think this is a silly answer from a gospel's perspective.

What % success rate merits persuading people to believe and receive Christ as Savior as worthwhile ? Should the door to salvation be shut after only one is converted ?

Did you not read the parable about the shepherd who left 99 sheep to go and rescue [b] one ...[text shortened]... d, being converted, is a joyous occasion, though ninety-nine feel they have no need to be saved.

It's not that silly.

With eastern traditions people goto gurus when they want to know about spirituality, if they don't it's fine. The gurus don't care if you're Christian, but Christians,like you ,seem to think that all is not well if one identifies as an atheist or Hindu,etc.
You see only one way up the mountain , the path made by JC.

Zen Buddhism hasn't robbed me of anything, except maybe some innocence.
Maybe I lack sense of compassion but I do not lack compassion.

Originally posted by sonship
I agree that the realm is as vast as the universe itself.

In fact the love of Christ is described as the infinite dimensions of the universe.
That is infinite [b]breadth, infinite length, infinite height, and infinite depth.

[quote] " That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being roo ...[text shortened]... ? Or do you recall reading about all the saints being filled unto all the fullness of God ?[/b]

It seems only logical that you will find a vaster universe in literature you have read more.
Allan watts? Is that all? That's like only reading about Christianity from one Christian from Asia..

Originally posted by sonship
I agree that the realm is as vast as the universe itself.

In fact the love of Christ is described as the infinite dimensions of the universe.
That is infinite [b]breadth, infinite length, infinite height, and infinite depth.

[quote] " That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith, that you, being roo ...[text shortened]... ? Or do you recall reading about all the saints being filled unto all the fullness of God ?[/b]

There are many such stories in eastern tradition. Zen does not cover this.

Originally posted by sonship
[b] Revelation 14 does have some good stuff for those who are undecided and yet may find themselves passing through that time of the great tribulation.

This help is seen in verses 6-7 The Eternal Gospel in the Great Tribulation.

This is not the Gospel of Grace preached in the church age. This is a eternal gospel against Atheism. And more ...[text shortened]... e.

This is a bit controversial. But the evidence is persuasive imo. I may come back to this.[/b]

Do you think the 'coming millenial age' is late?

If so how late?

Originally posted by FMF
Well, I think sonship's beliefs about things like eternal torture for a thoughtcrime amount to incoherent moral nonsense, and I've said so many times. So I obviously don't have any reason to think there's any truth whatsoever in stuff like that. I think he is mistaken.

Whatever beliefs he might have about the need for compassion, empathy, tolerance... I am su ...[text shortened]... ords to that effect, a hundred times in the last year. You mustn't have read any of those posts.

Do you think truth will always ring true to you? What makes you so sure that the things that ring true to Sonship are not true and the things that ring true to you are in fact true?

Originally posted by divegeester
Describe one "pearl" of sonship's which has personally blessed you?

Whether you agree with him or not, they are his pearls, for people like you to trample under foot.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
Do you think truth will always ring true to you? What makes you so sure that the things that ring true to Sonship are not true and the things that ring true to you are in fact true?

This is more of your trademark, monotonous, repetitive, not-listening type stuff that you may think constitutes a 'conversation' but to me it sounds like self-parody..

Originally posted by FMF
This is more of your trademark, monotonous, repetitive, not-listening type stuff that you may think constitutes a 'conversation' but to me it sounds like self-parody..

And more trademark dodging from you.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
And more trademark dodging from you.

Your little two-barreled question was surely just you taking the piss? If something seems true to me, then it seems true to me. There. Is that what you needed to hear? And I couldn't give two hoots if you think the things that ring true to Sonship also ring true to you. There.