The influence of science on society

Originally posted by Starrman
I believe all modern life, its abilities, instincts etc. Are a result of evolution. However, at what point intelligence as we know it was selected for and became an evolutionary adaptation i cannot say. Do you have a point you plan on getting to sometime soon?

Would you agree that the cell is the simplest form of life?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Where do you find DNA without a cell?

For DNA to replicate, very sophisticated proteins are needed, right?

For the proteins to be formed the cell is needed.

So which came first, the chicken or the egg?

the 4 amino acids that make up DNA came first

Originally posted by dj2becker
Would you agree that the cell is the simplest form of life?

No, as has been stated previously viruses are smaller and exhibit the same qualities. What has this got to do with your previous questions?

Originally posted by dj2becker
Would you agree that the cell is the simplest form of life?

Again, no. If you would like a different answer, please post what you would like us to say.

Originally posted by frogstomp
the 4 amino acids that make up DNA came first

How many chemicals are needed for a DNA strand to replicate?

Originally posted by dj2becker
How many chemicals are needed for a DNA strand to replicate?

42.

Ok, jokes aside, does it further your argument to know this? DNA replication is fact - whether the starting point be religious or areligious.

If you REALLY want to know, google it. (or try http://www.msu.edu/course/lbs/149h/DNArep.html)

Originally posted by dj2becker
How many chemicals are needed for a DNA strand to replicate?

Geez, now you're asking, it's a long time since I did genetics. Okay, quick bit of thinking.

Hydrogen, Carbon, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorous. I think that's it isn't it?

EDIT: I'm presuming you meant what atoms are used to make DNA, if not please elaborate.

Originally posted by Starrman
No, as has been stated previously viruses are smaller and exhibit the same qualities. What has this got to do with your previous questions?

You were saying that intelligence evolved but you are not sure when this happened. But you were not willing to agree that it did in fact evolve from the prebiotic soup. In other words you were implying that it evolved after the soup. But the point I am trying to make is that it must have evovled from something. That is the reason why I was trying to assertain what you regard as the simplest organism. I does not make sense however that you regard intelligence to have evolved from itself. Do you mean to say that intelligence has always been there from the beginning?

Originally posted by dj2becker
You were saying that intelligence evolved but you are not sure when this happened. But you were not willing to agree that it did in fact evolve from the prebiotic soup. In other words you were implying that it evolved after the soup. But the point I am trying to make is that it must have evovled from something. That is the reason why I was trying to assert ...[text shortened]... ved from itself. Do you mean to say that intelligence has always been there from the beginning?

Are you being purposefully simple minded? The question "did intelligence originate from the primordial soup" and your statement that if not, it spontaneously "arrived" are not logical.

LIFE developed from the "primordial" soup and INTELLIGENCE evolved as a survival mechanism of life.

Asking questions with no simple answer, and inferring some tangenical argument from the given answer is not logical.

Originally posted by dj2becker
You were saying that intelligence evolved but you are not sure when this happened. But you were not willing to agree that it did in fact evolve from the prebiotic soup. In other words you were implying that it evolved after the soup. But the point I am trying to make is that it must have evovled from something. That is the reason why I was trying to assert ...[text shortened]... ved from itself. Do you mean to say that intelligence has always been there from the beginning?

Neither. You have misunderstood. When I say I do not know at which point intelligence came into being, what I mean is that I cannot say at which point we would recognise it as the intelligence we know of today, or a predecessorof it, or a distant relative of it. Intelligence is not a tangible quality we have been able to ascertain the properties of and so, it is impossible to say at what point it changed from unintelligent sensory adaptation into intelligence itself.

Originally posted by Starrman
Neither. You have misunderstood. When I say I do not know at which point intelligence came into being, what I mean is that I cannot say at which point we would recognise it as the intelligence we know of today, or a predecessorof it, or a distant relative of it. Intelligence is not a tangible quality we have been able to ascertain the properties of and so ...[text shortened]... say at what point it changed from unintelligent sensory adaptation into intelligence itself.

Neither. You have misunderstood. When I say I do not know at which point intelligence came into being...

So why can you not agree that ultimately intelligence evolved from the prebiotic soup? I mean do you not believe that ultimately everything evolved from the chemical soup? If so then why not intelligence?

what I mean is that I cannot say at which point we would recognise it as the intelligence we know of today, or a predecessorof it, or a distant relative of it. Intelligence is not a tangible quality we have been able to ascertain the properties of and so, it is impossible to say at what point it changed from unintelligent sensory adaptation into intelligence itself.

So what you are ultimately saying is that intelligence evolved unintelligent sensory adaptation? Where have you ever seen unintelligence create intelligence? Do you perhaps believe that the famous Miller experiment demostrates this?

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]Neither. You have misunderstood. When I say I do not know at which point intelligence came into being...

So why can you not agree that ultimately intelligence evolved from the prebiotic soup? I mean do you not believe that ulti ...[text shortened]... rhaps believe that the famous Miller experiment demostrates this? [/b]

[/b]When have you ever seen intelligence create intelligence?

Originally posted by dj2becker
What do you think caused the new information? Do you believe that mutations can cause new information?

According to Dr Lee Spetner, a highly qualified scientist who taught information and communication theory at Johns Hopkins Universit ...[text shortened]...

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v20/i3/answer.asp

The flaw with this common Creationist argument is that you guys don't have a rigorous and consistent definition of "information". Werner Gitt's was utterly flawed. Can you rigorously define "information" dj? If you don't do so, your question cannot be answered. Here are some examples of events which occur in nature which might be relevant. There may be others I am not aware of or that aren't coming to mind at the moment.

Point mutations altering genes
Point mutations lengthening genes while altering them
Polyploidy
Transposons moving genes around
Retroviruses inserting their genomes into other organisms' genomes

Originally posted by dj2becker
Any form of intelligence comes from a greater source of intelligence as portrayed by Starman's post. If Starman had just used a random amount of Alphabetical letters there would have been no intelligence contained in his post. But the fact that the Alphabetical letters posted by Starman were arranged into words that have meaning clearly shows that they co ...[text shortened]... saying that the "chemical soup" from which you evolved had more intelligence than you have...

Would you define "intelligence"?

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]The primordial soup didn't create intelligence

So where does your intelligence come from?

...it created a very, very basic form of life, that eventually evolved, through a process of natural selection, into me.

Do you mean to say that non-life created life without the use of intelligence? Has this ever been observed?[/b]

I believe this has happened, and no it has not been observed, unless the mindless union of sperm and egg which mindlessly develops from an unintelligent cell to an intelligent human is an example.

Has the creation of intelligence through intelligence been observed?