Originally posted by lucifershammer
You're free to disagree but, in this case, the basis of your disagreement is one vast conspiracy theory (a theory that you hold) with very little evidence.

Hardly. The basis of my disagreement is rational observation of the facts, and discounting your rampant Last Thursdayism. My acceptance of a 'conspiracy' is irrelevant in this case, merely a red herring.

Originally posted by AThousandYoung
While you're at it, you can explain it to God too. That's how he "wrote" in the sky right?

ha! Clever little monkey, aren't you? If I see him, I'll tell him you're looking for him.

Originally posted by David C
It does. However, someone needs to explain to that webmaster that a black background with white text is painful and dizzying to read. Sort of like expecting something other than 'goddunnit' from Freaky and LH.

Yes.

I used to have a program that could be set to show the stars from any given location up to about - 10 000, I think. Do you know of anything similar, preferably free?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Yes.

I used to have a program that could be set to show the stars from any given location up to about - 10 000, I think. Do you know of anything similar, preferably free?

Try this one.

www.stellarium.org

I'm not sure how far back it will let you go, but it's still pretty darn cool.

Originally posted by David C
It does. However, someone needs to explain to that webmaster that a black background with white text is painful and dizzying to read. Sort of like expecting something other than 'goddunnit' from Freaky and LH.

Perhaps you can explain the ages-old constellations, names of stars, etc., in some manner other than that which outlines exactly the gospel.

When I say 'ages-old,' I am not referring to the stars themselves, but rather, to the names of the constellations. Near as we can tell, the names of the constellations (and the stars within) have been used by all cultures since the dawn of man's written history.

Originally posted by David C
Hardly. The basis of my disagreement is rational observation of the facts, and discounting your rampant Last Thursdayism. My acceptance of a 'conspiracy' is irrelevant in this case, merely a red herring.

Are you saying you don't believe in a "camp-fire" conspiracy?

Originally posted by David C
Sort of like expecting something other than 'goddunnit' from Freaky and LH.

Or the usual "Jesus Conspiracy", adolescent atheism from DavidC and howardgee.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Near as we can tell, the names of the constellations (and the stars within) have been used by all cultures since the dawn of man's written history.

Yes, the constellations [as defined] in the [Eastern] zodiac pre-date Jesus by thousands of years. At least as far back as the Temples of Karnak and Hathor, which may be even older than archaeologists currently believe. Enlighten me...how does this help your position?

edits [ ]

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Are you saying you don't believe in a "camp-fire" conspiracy?

...and? Despite your intellectually dishonest characterizations otherwise, it's not quite a "Capricorn One" scenario.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
Or the usual "Jesus Conspiracy", adolescent atheism from DavidC and howardgee.

My, my, my. Put the claws away, princess, you might break a nail.

Too bad that my adolescent dilettantism is more real, honest and forthright than the pseudo-intellectual garbage you and yours spew all over this forum. And for the record, I don't know if howie holds any sort of "conspiracy" theory regarding Jesus...near as I can tell, he just thinks you suck.

Originally posted by David C
Yes, the constellations [as defined] in the [Eastern] zodiac pre-date Jesus by thousands of years. At least as far back as the Temples of Karnak and Hathor, which may be even older than archaeologists currently believe. Enlighten me...how does this help your position?

edits [ ]

I wasn't referring to a pre-dating the Common Era; I was referring to the constellations, names, etc., pre-dating the Flood.

Originally posted by David C
My, my, my. Put the claws away, princess, you might break a nail.

Too bad that my adolescent dilettantism is more real, honest and forthright than the pseudo-intellectual garbage you and yours spew all over this forum. And for the record, I don't know if howie holds any sort of "conspiracy" theory regarding Jesus...near as I can tell, he just thinks you suck.

"More real, honest and forthright"? ROFL!

If you have any intention of being real, honest and forthright you'd leave the stereotypes and bogeymen at home and come to the table with an open mind. I'm not saying you have to be open to the existence of God or anything like that; but this whole "people who believe in God are idiots" tirade is childish.

Just about the only honest bit in your post is the part where you describe yourself as a dilettante.

LH

PS: And don't worry about the claws -- they're tougher than you are.

Originally posted by David C
...and? Despite your intellectually dishonest characterizations otherwise, it's not quite a "Capricorn One" scenario.

Really? Care to elaborate what scenario it is?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
I wasn't referring to a pre-dating the Common Era; I was referring to the constellations, names, etc., pre-dating the Flood.

Ah, the "flood". Yes, I suppose the constellations did exist prior to a mythical flood for which there is no physical evidence. Since I still have no idea where you are going, let me rephrase:

- Stars exist, perhaps since proposed, uncaused "Big Bang".
- Humans evolve.

fast forward

- Ancient astronomers denote certain patterns in observed groupings of these stars. They're anthropomorphized into everyday Earthly objects (fish, scorpion, bull, virgin, etc.). Through rigorous observation they come to understand the role that the Sun, giver and sustainer of life, plays in the cycle of life, death and rebirth within nature, and the passage of the seasons. They chart the sun's progression over generations, making special notes where the low-, mid-, and high points of the sun's cycles occur, and celebrating these celestial events.
- Thousands of years pass, this gnosis is communicated through various mediums such as oral tradition and folklore.
- Eventually, this information begins to degrade, morph, and coalesce again into godmen-myths such as Apollo, Mithras and Jesus.
- Tim LaHaye and Jerry Jenkins write the "Left Behind" series.

Originally posted by lucifershammer
"More real, honest and forthright"? ROFL!

but this whole "people who believe in God are idiots" tirade is childish.

I defy you to present an instance were I have posted this. Yes, I feel Christians have been misled, and continue to allow themselves to be willfully deceived. Their motivation is egocentric. By itself, this does not make them "idiots". Pat Robertson and Fred Phelps are idiots, your average Church-goer is not. Scared, perhaps.

Just about the only honest bit in your post is the part where you describe yourself as a dilettante.

I have the honesty and integrity to admit it. What's your excuse for the insufferable pretentiousness, again?

PS: And don't worry about the claws -- they're tougher than you are.

That's great. Too bad your ego isn't quite so sturdy.