30 Jul 07
Originally posted by whodey🙂 ok I got it, it was not Jesus, it was someone like him, so he didn't know what to say 🙂
Read Luke 23. The account is there and Jesus offers no defense. Why?
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In Luke 23 it is clear what Jewsh accused Jesus for:
(king James Version)(Luke)(Lk-23-2)(And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is Christ a King.)
That was the crime of Jesus. Nothing else. It doesn't talk about Blasmpheming.
30 Jul 07
1 edit
My concern is this, what was all the exitement over the Messiah if, in fact, Christ was the Messiah? There are about 60 different prophecies with more than 300 references of the coming Messiah. Luke 24:25 says, "Then Jesus said to them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the PROPHETS have spoken. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? And begining at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the SCRIPTURES the things concerning himself."
Also look at John 5:46. Christ says, "For had you believed Moses, you would have believed me, for he wrote of me."
So I ask you, where are the prophecies concerning Jesus in the OT? Are there any or is this just a corruption of the gospels in your view? Also, where are the prophecies concerning Mohammad in the OT? Should there not be some for Mohammad as well especially in light of Christ's failure to convert the Jews? Why would there be so many prophecies and such anticipation for the Jewish Messiah that ultimatly failed and none for Mohammad?
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by whodeyAgain as I said, before, those who accepted Jesus were not considered Jewish by religion any more. They are still Jewish by race, but their religion is the original religion of Moses which is Islam. So if this is the case, then I believe Jesus was successful at this point.
I think now is as good a time as any to discuss your belief. So you think that the overall intention of God sending Jesus to earth was to prepare the way for Mohammad? I thought the sole purpose of Jesus coming to earth was for the Jewish people? If so, Jesus failed miserably in helping to convert the Jewish people to Islam.
Talking about the other part, about if Jesus really came to earth to prepare the way for prophet Mohammed, it will need some time, and I have to go to bed now. May be tomorrow,
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I forgot to mention that as you said Muslims believe that Jesus will return. And that is another part of his purpose on earch. If you like we can discuss it later too.
30 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyBecause they erroneously accused Him of 'making himself to be God.' Jesus, of course, corrects them,
But why did they then pick up stones to stone him for blasphemy if what you say is true?
even as they try to stone Him (pursuer of Truth, that He is) by saying, '...can you say that one
whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world blasphemes because I said, 'I am the Son
of God.'
Nemesio
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by whodeyWait a second.
My concern is this, what was all the exitement over the Messiah if, in fact, Christ was the Messiah? There are about 60 different prophecies with more than 300 references of the coming Messiah. Luke 24:25 says, "Then Jesus said to them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the PROPHETS have spoken. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, ...[text shortened]... s and such anticipation for the Jewish Messiah that ultimatly failed and none for Mohammad?
What's the discussion here: Is Jesus the Messiah or is Jesus Divine? You're confusing the two.
Nemesio
30 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by ahosyneyWhat????????? Now Jesus is no longer Jesus? Forgive me but this is seems like moving goal posts to me.
🙂 ok I got it, it was not Jesus, it was someone like him, so he didn't know what to say 🙂
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In Luke 23 it is clear what Jewsh accused Jesus for:
(king James Version)(Luke)(Lk-23-2)(And they began to accuse him, saying, We found this fellow perverting the nation, and forbidding to give tribute to Caesar, saying that he himself is ...[text shortened]... a King.)
That was the crime of Jesus. Nothing else. It doesn't talk about Blasmpheming.
As far as the blasphemy account, look at Mark14:62-64. This shows it more clearly. In fact, I think we can both agree that this was the first gospel to have been written and, therefore, perhaps more reliable.
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by whodeyOk, it is all connceted. And you already raised some good points.
My concern is this, what was all the exitement over the Messiah if, in fact, Christ was the Messiah? There are about 60 different prophecies with more than 300 references of the coming Messiah. Luke 24:25 says, "Then Jesus said to them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the PROPHETS have spoken. Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, ...[text shortened]... s and such anticipation for the Jewish Messiah that ultimatly failed and none for Mohammad?
I don't think I will be able to address this now.
But I will like to ask you a question to think about untill we meet talk again:
As you can see, Christians all over the world view Islam as the enemy and the whole conflict in this world is between Islam and Others , and I know that most of them view Islam as the big evil.
Why do you think GOD in the Bible didn't mention anything about Islam (if realy you believe there nothing about it)?
30 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by NemesioDo you see Nemesio agrees with me!!!
Because they erroneously accused Him of 'making himself to be God.' Jesus, of course, corrects them,
even as they try to stone Him (pursuer of Truth, that He is) by saying, '...can you say that one
whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world blasphemes because I said, 'I am the Son
of God.'
Nemesio
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by ahosyneySome think that it has been adressed. For example, have you ever heard of the false prophet mentioned in Revelation?
Ok, it is all connceted. And you already raised some good points.
I don't think I will be able to address this now.
But I will like to ask you a question to think about untill we meet talk again:
As you can see, Christians all over the world view Islam as the enemy and the whole conflict in this world is between Islam and Others , and I know that m ...[text shortened]... n the Bible didn't mention anything about Islam (if realy you believe there nothing about it)?
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by whodeyYes I did , but Revelation was accpted as a canon may be 300 year or more after Jesus, and It of course written after Jesus. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the OT prophesies.
Some think that it has been adressed. For example, have you ever heard of the false prophet mentioned in Revelation?
30 Jul 07
Originally posted by NemesioI think I better go sleep then,
I'll wager dollars to doughnuts that he considers our agreement as vindication of his position...
Either that, or I'm ridiculing and belittling him or something.
Nemesio
BTY: I think we did a good Job 😉
🙂🙂
30 Jul 07
5 edits
Originally posted by NemesioWe are throwing terms around as if they mean nothing. Specifically you and ahonesey are saying that just because one is called the Son of God or the Messiah in no way means that one is divine. In fact, you could call Mohammad or Moses or Joe Blow the Messiah or the Son of God and no one would really care because it is, in fact, nothing new or special. However, when Christ asks his disciples who they think he is, Peter responds by saying that you are the Messiah. Christ then forbids him to tell anyone. Why? What is so special about the role of Messiah? Can you contradict the account in Mark I provided that shows Christ being convicted of blasphemy? Does he offer a defense? If not, why not? If so, what is it? Acts 8:32 says, "He was lad as a sheep to the slaughter, and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth. In his humiliation his judgement was taken away, and who will declare his generation? For his life is taken from the earth." This is in reference to Isaiah's prophesy in Chapter 53 verse 8. Do you believe that Jesus was not really Jesus in this account as ahonesey believes?
Because they erroneously accused Him of 'making himself to be God.' Jesus, of course, corrects them,
even as they try to stone Him (pursuer of Truth, that He is) by saying, '...can you say that one
whom the Father has consecrated and sent into the world blasphemes because I said, 'I am the Son
of God.'
Nemesio
30 Jul 07
1 edit
Originally posted by ahosyneyOk then, some speculate that the abomination of Desolation spoken of in Daniel is in reference to the Dome of the Rock on the temple mount. Had you ever heard that theory?
Yes I did , but Revelation was accpted as a canon may be 300 year or more after Jesus, and It of course written after Jesus. That is not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the OT prophesies.