Originally posted by scottishinnzTruth has a funny way of using those opposed to further establishing itself. Works both way, Scotty.
You can bet as scientists we would have tried to pick him apart. People try it with my science all the time. It's good. It makes the theory stronger. You guys attack it, and all the time you're just making the case for evolution stonger, not weaker. That must REALLY gall.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHIf someone in all seriousness started a thread that delineated the attributes of elves according to The Great and Ancient Handbook of Elf Knowledge, everyone would laugh their collective asses off. Surely you can see how this elf talk is relevant.
Must be the secret de-coder ring conspiracy, again. Perhaps, in your intelligence, you would be the first to step foward and point out the logical fallacy in any one of the posts relative to the attributes of God? Perhaps you can reveal the self-contradictions?
Like the rest of the self-described skeptics, you are only able to muster a reactionary sco ...[text shortened]... no response.
When challenged to show the logic gaps in the presentation...
no response.
Originally posted by LemonJelloWell, since you're all about the humor, give it a go and see how many donkeys are left standing.
If someone in all seriousness started a thread that delineated the attributes of elves according to The Great and Ancient Handbook of Elf Knowledge, everyone would laugh their collective asses off. Surely you can see how this elf talk is relevant.
Originally posted by LemonJelloThis was the same point that I was making with the linear equation earlier. Essentially, what Freak has done with this thread is analogous to claiming (x,y,z) = (0,-1,0) is the solution to that equation, and then sermonizing (and not at all in the concise manner that he promised) as to why this triple should be esteemed above all others.
If someone in all seriousness started a thread that delineated the attributes of elves according to The Great and Ancient Handbook of Elf Knowledge, everyone would laugh their collective asses off. Surely you can see how this elf talk is relevant.
The arbitrary and speculative nature of Freak's project far outweighs any potentially novel ideas he could offer.
Originally posted by telerionWish I could claim credit for establishing a systematic theology. The purpose of posting the same, however, is to inform others of the nature and character of God (and therefore, His thinking). The hope is, once the objective reader begins to get their mind around (as much as this is possible, of course) the integrity of God, the purpose of life becomes more perspicuous.
The arbitrary and speculative nature of Freak's project far outweighs any potentially novel ideas he could offer.
To date, there has been no sermon.
Originally posted by FreakyKBHSo let me get this straight. You posit that there exists a unique person called "God" with so much power, intellect, and creativity that he can design, construct, and sustain every interaction (physical and conceptual) in the universe; You then list the attributes of such a person and insinuate that you know (and can explain) what such an unfathomable being is thinking?
Wish I could claim credit for establishing a systematic theology. The purpose of posting the same, however, is to inform others of the nature and character of God (and therefore, His thinking). The hope is, once the objective reader begins to get their mind around (as much as this is possible, of course) the integrity of God, the purpose of life becomes more perspicuous.
To date, there has been no sermon.
Come on . . .ðŸ˜
Originally posted by telerionNot to the nth degree, of course. But surely you will concede that knowing a person's character will yield some idea of their values, standards, etc., and therefore allow for some degree of prediction of their actions?
So let me get this straight. You posit that there exists a unique person called "God" with so much power, intellect, and creativity that he can design, construct, and sustain every interaction (physical and conceptual) in the universe; You then list the attributes of such a person and insinuate that you know (and can explain) what such an unfathomable being is thinking?
Come on . . .ðŸ˜
Originally posted by telerionYep. The subject matter here is largely unconstrained (like your three variables and only one equation). So Freaky just imports his own extra constraints and arrives at whichever "unique solution" fits his fancy. I wish I could fudge all my boundary conditions like that -- my problem sets would be a breeze.
This was the same point that I was making with the linear equation earlier. Essentially, what Freak has done with this thread is analogous to claiming (x,y,z) = (0,-1,0) is the solution to that equation, and then sermonizing (and not at all in the concise manner that he promised) as to why this triple should be esteemed above all others.
The ar ...[text shortened]... speculative nature of Freak's project far outweighs any potentially novel ideas he could offer.
Please do continue, though, Freaky. Like beauty, fiction is its own excuse for being. Wasn't immutability next?
Originally posted by LemonJelloAnd no one knows fiction like the one divorced from reality.
Yep. The subject matter here is largely unconstrained (like your three variables and only one equation). So Freaky just imports his own extra constraints and arrives at whichever "unique solution" fits his fancy. I wish I could fudge all my boundary conditions like that -- my problem sets would be a breeze.
Please do continue, though, Freaky. Like beauty, fiction is its own excuse for being. Wasn't immutability next?
I'll make sure I scramble to get this done for you, LJ.
Immutability
God is unchangeable. He cannot change; human beings change.
God cannot be better or worse than His essence. He never had a day when He was better or worse, in contrast to us, for whom every day is better or worse. There is a vast difference between creature and Creator; you cannot give God a good day or a bad day, but He can certainly give you either.
Even the anthropopathic representations of the Lord Jesus Christ in Scripture, such as ‘repentance,’ merely represent His perfect attitude toward variations in man, in history, and in time. God may appear to change, but He does not. He is merely expressing His character differently as called for by differences and changes in man or history. He treats each person as an individual and every historical situation according to the facts of the case.
God has the ability to handle any situation in life with whatever is necessary; therefore, the fact that He meets one set of circumstances with discipline and another set with deliverance does not mean that His immutability is compromised. It means instead that He is wise and just and that He knows when to do what. He does not deal with everything the same way--- that would be stupidity, not immutability. God deals with everything according to the information He possesses, which is complete.
Related specifically to the Supreme Court of Heaven, the Chief Justice is perfect with no contradictions. He is immutable yet able to evaluate different situations in different ways. Since He is unchangeably perfect, His pronouncements are always perfect.
Immutability is consistent with God’s freedom and ceaseless activity. God simultaneously deals with millions and millions of people who come under His special attention. He dictates to us; we do not dictate to Him. For specified activities, He has delegated some of His authority to pastor-teachers, and we adjust to God’s infinite, immutable, ceaselessly active authority by adjusting to the authority of the pastor-teacher.
God is free to act according to His essence. The fact that He is immutable means that He cannot change His own nature, not that He cannot act as His divine nature dictates. Therefore, God is always at His best. There is a false doctrine which states that because man failed in the Garden, salvation is God’s second best. Supposedly His first best was to perpetuate that perfect environment. The ultimate conclusion of such false teaching is that if we are nice and good enough, we might someday deserve God’s first best, and He will establish another Eden. That is not only blasphemous and legalistic, it is satanic evil. God is always at His best. No characteristic of God can change; His justice, the watchdog over all His attributes, makes certain of that when He deals with man.
From God’s immutability stems His faithfulness.
Faithful to forgive.
Faithful to keep us saved.
Faithful to deliver in pressure.
Faithful in suffering.
Faithful in providing a partnership with Christ, faithful in His plan.
Faithful in providing eternity.
Faithful to stabilize the believer.
Veracity
Veracity means that God is absolute truth, the expression of His integrity. His veracity is manifest in His ways, His modus operandi, His works, and by His word.
The veracity of the Godhead.
Father (Ps. 31:5; Isa. 65:16; Jer. 10:10; John 3:33; 17:3; Rom 3:4)
Son (John 1:14; 8:32; 14:6; I John 5:20; Rev. 16:7; 19:11)
Holy Spirit (John 14:27; 15:26; 16:13; I John 5:6)
Not merely true to other beings, God is true to Himself. The fact that God is veracity toward others is secondary. The primary fact is that in eternity past before any creature existed, each member of the Trinity was true to Himself and therefore had perfect integrity. Each member always possessed perfect integrity based on truth. Many says, “I am telling the truth”; God says, “I am ... the truth” (John 14:6). Man often finds it easy to adjust to others by lies and deceit, but God has never made such an adjustment.
God does not hold the truth as being something He acquired; He is the truth from eternity past. The truth has never been diminished or compromised in Him; God is the source of truth. Therefore, God is the source of Bible doctrine. From the truth that God is comes the truth we have in writing. Every form of knowledge, every truth, dwells in God in absoluteness, thus the dogmatism of Bible doctrine. The divine attribute of veracity guarantees that divine revelation in any form--- spoken (precanon) or written (Canon)--- is accurate, perfect, and absolute.
There is a vast amount of truth that has not yet been revealed. However, whatever has been revealed in time is designed for us to learn and understand.
If we are to adjust to the justice of God, we must acquire truth in our souls through the daily intake of doctrine. We do not naturally possess the truth within ourselves; we are born liars because the sin nature resides in us. Therefore whatever integrity we have cannot compare with the integrity of God. Although people often adjust to each other by lying, we cannot deceive God; we must adjust to His justice through truth; the truth of the Gospel, the truth of rebound (recovery of the filling of the Holy Spirit), and the truth of Bible doctrine.
With respect to the attributes of God, no one has been able to demonstrate any logical fallacies, absurdities or gaps in logic therein.
I'm beginning to think the sceptics really should just call themselves scoffers. Not one of you have yet argued the specifics of the issues. Complaints are made, relative to the 'if God is this, then how come that' variety, all with artificial boundaries. Here are the attributes of the living God, the only prism through which human history will ever make sense, and not a one of you say a word.
You don't want answers, you want easily-toppled opponents to your tenuous beliefs. You could be supplied with all manner of irrefutable systematic theological discourse, from the attributes of God to the divine decree, and everything inbetween, and it would all go to naught. As the Navajo said, "You cannot wake someone who is pretending to be asleep." Or, better:
The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness,
since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them.
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.
For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened.
Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools
and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles.
...
They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
When the truth is plainly before you, you reject it as "too hot! too cold! too just right!" or in some other way, mainly by attacking the supposed intellectual deficiency of its flawed messengers.
The wart is not on the truth, nor will any of its opponents be able to claim that it wasn't made 'clear enough' for them.