09 May 13
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Originally posted by stellspalfieit is a belief, you yourself said it, you termed it a non-belief, a non belief in a deity, look at it how you like, its still a belief, although a negative one. Not only that , it is by definition, a truth claim, that God does not exist, for as the article points out, if you hold that negation, then you must hold that the clause which gave rise to the negation, 'God does not exist', must be true, in a positive way, otherwise you are denying the clause by definition and entering a self contradiction. Thus you have a broad perspective, the belief that there is no God, and the narrow perspective, that there is actually no God. The former being a subjective belief whichever way you look at it the latter being a truth claim, whichever way you look at it.
it been repeated on here so many times.....but one more for good-luck.
just like skepticism isnt a belief. atheism is not a belief.
you keep trying to turn it into a thing, a thing so it can be compared to religious beliefs. but it cant. it is not a description of a system. it means one thing and one thing only. everything else is baggage brought ...[text shortened]... bability claims are issue you have with common or uncommon attitudes of like-minded individuals.
09 May 13
Originally posted by OdBodIt certainly easy for the theist to answer quite the contrary that those who deny place for the existence of the supernatural have limited their quest for truth to unintelligent agencies, and which is more limiting? Never the less attacking the weaknesses of the other side, as is pointed out, is a logical fallacy, for it does nothing to provide evidence for our own position, it merely seeks to negate that of the opposing view.
In my opinion religious thinking creates a fixed intellectual position based on an absolute belief ,this I believe limits our potential .I therefore oppose any system which does not recognise it's own fallibility, and yes that includes my own.
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09 May 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobiehave you decided if im making a truth claim or a probability claim yet?
it is a belief, you yourself said it, you termed it a non-belief, a non belief in a deity, look at it how you like, its still a belief, although a negative one. Not only that , it is by definition, a truth claim, that God does not exist, for as the article points out, if you hold that negation, then you must hold that the clause which gave rise to t ...[text shortened]... ief whichever way you look at it the latter being a truth claim, whichever way you look at it.
09 May 13
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what aversion do our atheist friends have in coming to terms with the idea that their position might simply be a subjective belief? Is it an attempt to distance oneself from what might be perceived as a religious belief, in the sense that no evidence for the stance can be proffered, making it irrational and unscientific, those two bastions on which the very tenets of atheism are meant to be solidly founded? Oh my trusty feers, gies yer han and well tak a cup oh kindness yet, its no shame to have unsubstantiated subjective beliefs founded on unobserved phenomena, its ok, some things are near impossible to prove.
09 May 13
Originally posted by stellspalfieIt depends on what form your atheism takes, you may very well be guilty of both, then again, you might not. Are you claiming the belief that God does not exist or are you claiming that in actuality, there is no God?
have you decided if im making a truth claim or a probability claim yet?
09 May 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe have our wires crossed.
yes when i was a child i caught my parents putting out Christmas presents and food (in Scotland we give Santa milk and cake and a carrot for the reindeer), after this i suspected that Santa was not real, thus this forms a rational basis, i have of course not witnessed anything with regard to any other mythical creatures. To state that you find the a ...[text shortened]... t is to enter another realm.
You may exclude Santa clause from my list of mythical creatures.
I'm not claiming I find your non belief insulting, what I find insulting is you 'pretending' to have non beliefs when it comes to mythical creatures. I simply do not believe you when you say you don't know if you believe fairies or elves or whichever mythical creature exists. You claimed to have a non belief with regard to Santa Claus existing but that was simply not true. Did you forget if you thought Santa Claus existed? Did that escape your mind for a moment? Or is it just that pretending to not know whether SC existed suited your argument at that particular time? What else will I find if I go searching for other statements you have made with regard to mythical creatures on this forum?
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09 May 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobiewhats the difference between god does not exist and there is no god?
It depends on what form your atheism takes, you may very well be guilty of both, then again, you might not. Are you claiming the belief that God does not exist or are you claiming that in actuality, there is no God?
09 May 13
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Originally posted by Proper Knobyes Santa was a mistake and i remembered that i had a rational basis for his non existence, but you need not get offended, relax, its ok, but i would prefer if the argument did not get personal, its not about me or my beliefs, its about theism and atheism and the claims that they make and i would be pleased if it stayed that way. You may search the forums far and wide if you like.
We have our wires crossed.
I'm not claiming I find your non belief insulting, what I find insulting is you 'pretending' to have non beliefs when it comes to mythical creatures. I simply do not believe you when you say you don't know if you believe fairies or elves or whichever mythical creature exists. You claimed to have a non belief with regard to ...[text shortened]... earching for other statements you have made with regard to mythical creatures on this forum?
09 May 13
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Originally posted by stellspalfieIts an assertion of a subjective personal believe, i believe that God does not exists and an arrogant and unsubstantiated assertion that objectively there is no God.
whats the difference between god does not exist and there is no god?
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09 May 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieokay, i with you. i would generally use the first when talking to people (in normal life) but really i mean the second one. but my concept of the second sentence is based on the scientific laws of probability.
Its an assertion of a subjective perosnal believe, i believe that God does not exists and an arrogant and unsubstantiated assertion that objectively there is no God.
09 May 13
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Originally posted by stellspalfieprobability, sounds like a bit of a gamble to me my son and not wholly scientific either. I need to take a rest , so wasted, dinner time 🙂
okay, i with you. i would generally use the first when talking to people (in normal life) but really i mean the second one. but my concept of the second sentence is based on the scientific laws of probability.
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09 May 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieprobability is gamble i agree. the lack of evidence for god puts me in good shape.
probability, sounds like a bit of a gamble to me my son and now wholly scientific either.
there is a very good book called 'skepticism inc' about a man and a shopping trolley that open a metaphysical betting shop. when you want to explore your 0.0000000000001% non belief give it a read.
09 May 13
Originally posted by robbie carrobieWe're discussing our beliefs and non beliefs. We have been discussing your beliefs/non beliefs with regard to mythical creatures for most of the day, so I don't see how you can claim that it's not about you or your beliefs?!
yes Santa was a mistake and i remembered that i had a rational basis for his non existence, but you need not get offended, relax, its ok, but i would prefer if the argument did not get personal, its not about me or my beliefs, its about theism and atheism and the claims that they make and i would be pleased if it stayed that way. You may search the forums far and wide if you like.
Also, claiming that you'd forgotten as to whether you believed Santa existed or not has to be the gem of the day. Just to hammer the nail in the coffin here you are ribbing Rajk99 a while back -
i have specifically avoided speculation and merely stated what is self evident form scripture. do you also believe in the man on the moon, the tooth fairies and Santa Claus? look Raj theres a unicorn and a dolphin jumping over a rainbow! ma ma ma mma ma am muppet!
Says it all.
09 May 13
Originally posted by Proper Knobso i am pretentious, so what.
We're discussing our beliefs and non beliefs. We have been discussing your beliefs/non beliefs with regard to mythical creatures for most of the day, so I don't see how you can claim that it's not about you or your beliefs?!
Also, claiming that you'd forgotten as to whether you believed Santa existed or not has to be the gem of the day. Just to hamme ...[text shortened]... orn and a dolphin jumping over a rainbow! ma ma ma mma ma am muppet![/quote]
Says it all.