That's the spirit!

Originally posted by kirksey957
From your tradition (Roman Catholic) what would you say? There is a great tradition of mysticism in the Catholic church.

What is your understanding of what you wrote ? Which are those ways and those experiences except the experience of listening to good music ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe

What is your understanding of what you wrote ? Which are those ways and those experiences ?

I was thinking of Theresa of Avila and Thomas Merton. Actually the last retreat I went on was run by a former priest who is very much influenced by Buddhism and meditation.

Originally posted by vistesd
I would say only in the sense that there can be people who are spiritual without having a particular religious expression that they adhere to, while some people can bind themselves (religare) to a religious expression without having a real spiritual sense. I would suspect that the first is relatively rare, while the second seems to be quite common. More co ...[text shortened]... leaving it behind as an outward expression--Thomas Merton comes to mind here), and some cannot.

Would you say experiencing the spiritual is a "feeling" ? Maybe a happy feeling ?

Originally posted by kirksey957
I was thinking of Theresa of Avila and Thomas Merton. Actually the last retreat I went on was run by a former priest who is very much influenced by Buddhism and meditation.

Did he tell people why he now was a former priest ? Had this something to do with his queste for the "spiritual", his queste for spiritual experience ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Did he tell people why he now was a former priest ? Had this something to do with his queste for the "spiritual", his queste for spiritual experience ?

I never asked him, but he is now married and he and his wife run the retreat center. So being married is an obvious answer, but we never talked about it.

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Would you say experiencing the spiritual is a "feeling" ? Maybe a happy feeling ?

Would you say experiencing the spiritual is a "feeling" ? Maybe a happy feeling ?

Quit asking such good questions! 😉

Okay, here it is: I have had what I can only call "mystical" experiences that were powerful and profound. I do not disallow the fact that they may have come from my unconscious. They went beyond "feeling," if by feeling, you mean an emotion. They did not, however, point to any particular religion--just a deep, deep, dramatic, unsolicited sense of presence. And--I really hate posting this in a "public" forum--a "communication" (no, I don't hear voices) that that presence was enough. Analogous to Julian of Norwich's "All shall be well, and all shall be well, and every manner of thing shall be well."

For lack of a better word, I call those experiences "spiritual," though they had no " religious" content. I really don't want to go into more detail in a written post.

There are also times when listening to a particular piece of music, or witnessing a simple scene in nature, has literally knocked me down and flooded me with feelings of awe, wonder and joy that I can't simply call "happy feelings."

Originally posted by kirksey957
Ivanhoe, let me give another example from my personal life. I very much like classical music. So as I am typing this I am listening to Bach's Sheep May Safely Graze. When I listen, excuse me, experience , this music, I am filled with peace and awe that may be beyond my words to explain. You may have had a similar experience. I am simply open to this as a gift.

Can you give me the BWV number and if possible the German title of the music you're listening to ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Can you give me the BWV number and if possible the German title of the music you're listening to ?

Cantata 208 (BWV 208) Schafe konnen sicher weiden.

Originally posted by vistesd
[b]Would you say experiencing the spiritual is a "feeling" ? Maybe a happy feeling ?

Quit asking such good questions! 😉

Okay, here it is: I have had what I can only call "mystical" experiences that were powerful and profound. I do not disallow the fact that they may have come from my unconscious. They went beyond "feeling," if by feeling ...[text shortened]... nd flooded me with feelings of awe, wonder and joy that I can't simply call "happy feelings."[/b]

Quit asking such good questions! 😉

Ahaaa ..... recognition at last ! 😀


I understand. You however don't connect these events with religiosity or the presence of a Supreme Being. Right ? Everybody, even a convinced atheist could be able to witness such "inner events", if he or she would be open-minded enough to experience it ?

Originally posted by ivanhoe
Quit asking such good questions! 😉

Ahaaa ..... recognition at last ! 😀


I understand. You however don't connect these events with religiosity or the presence of a Supreme Being. Right ? Everybody, even a convinced atheist could be able to witness such "inner events", if he or she would be open-minded enough to experience it ?

I understand. You however don't connect these events with religiosity or the presence of a Supreme Being. Right ? Everybody, even a convinced atheist could be able to witness such "inner events", if he or she would be open-minded enough to experience it ?

That's correct. Though they didn't seem to be "inner" events at the time; there was definitely an "externality" about them--though the unconscious is certainly capable of such "projections." They could have easily been a Buddhist experience I think. They are not incompatible with a "Supreme Being" concept, but they didn't necessarily point to it.

Originally posted by kirksey957
Cantata 208 (BWV 208) Schafe konnen sicher weiden.

Ahaaa, the Secular Cantata "Was mir behagt ist nur die muntre Jagd"


Schafe können sicher weiden,
Wo ein guter Hirte wacht !
Wo Regenten wohl regieren,
Kann man Ruh und Friede spüren
Und was Länder glücklich macht !


To listen to the "Matheus Passion" is more suitable for the time of year ........ 😉

Originally posted by Darfius
None of the 10 commandments or 7 deadly sins are things I want to do. Your argument remains invalid.

Is this true? Are you saying that you are not subject to temptation?
You never have the urge to lie, or think of a woman lustfully?

Are you without sin?

Nemesio

Originally posted by ivanhoe

Ahaaa, the Secular Cantata "Was mir behagt ist nur die muntre Jagd"


Schafe können sicher weiden,
Wo ein guter Hirte wacht !
Wo Regenten wohl regieren,
Kann man Ruh und Friede spüren
Und was Länder glücklich macht !


To listen to the "Matheus Passion" is more suitable for the time of year ........ 😉

Most people think that that Cantata is 'spiritual' but, as I recall
the people are resting in the field with the sheep after a big
orgy or something. I don't have the text in front of me, but it
is some big, nasty party.

I've been listening to the St John Passion (I know, I know, it's a
St Matthew Year, but they always do St John on Good Friday, so
don't beat me up).

I like the St John better, myself. I think that the arias 'Ich folge dir,'
'Ach mein Sinn' and the arioso 'Betrachte meine Seele' are absolutely
to die for. And the opening Chorus 'Herr unsre herrscher' is one of
the single best movements (at least as good as the St Matthew
'O Mensch bewein dein Suende gross' at the end).

What are your favorite movements?

Nemesio

Originally posted by Nemesio
Most people think that that Cantata is 'spiritual' but, as I recall
the people are resting in the field with the sheep after a big
orgy or something. I don't have the text in front of me, but it
is some big, nasty party.

I've been listening to the St John Passion (I know, I know, it's a
St Matthew Year, but they always do St John on Good Friday, ...[text shortened]... O Mensch bewein dein Suende gross' at the end).

What are your favorite movements?

Nemesio

A lot of things are beautiful in the St Matthew Passion, but I'll pick two aria's. The aria's "Buss und Reu" and "Erbarme dich, mein Gott". I have more than one version. In particular the one starring Kathleen Ferrier is breathtakingly beautiful.

Originally posted by Nemesio
Most people think that that Cantata is 'spiritual' but, as I recall
the people are resting in the field with the sheep after a big
orgy or something. I don't have the text in front of me, but it
is some big, nasty party.

I've been listening to the St John Passion (I know, I know, it's a
St Matthew Year, but they always do St John on Good Friday, ...[text shortened]... O Mensch bewein dein Suende gross' at the end).

What are your favorite movements?

Nemesio

Nemesio: "Most people think that that Cantata is 'spiritual' but, as I recall
the people are resting in the field with the sheep after a big
orgy or something. I don't have the text in front of me, but it
is some big, nasty party."


Sounds like Kirk to me all right ....... 😛