Suicide and hell

Originally posted by divegeester
"Unabated" sin can be forgiven (even though the word is not used in scripture). Jesus paid the price for all sin, you cannot put a measure or a limit on what is and what is not forgiven. You assume that the only way god deals with his people is by taking back the gift of salvation. This would like a parent booting their child out of the house for repeati ...[text shortened]... ll you commit between now and your death that will be greater these that will keep you from God?

You see Dive .. here is where we will continue to differ. The Bible clearly says:

1. that there are sins that will be forgiven and there are many whose sins are grave, and many who will continue to sin and God will forgive. Nobody is arguing that. So pointing out eg of David, Moses etc etc, proves nothing.

2. that some will NOT be forgiven and it says so several times in several different ways and about several kinds of people, INCLUDING THOSE WHO TASTED HOLY SPIRIT GIFTS.

You are taking the first statement and not accepting the second. Quite likely people do that because of their indoctrination or other reason. I accept BOTH. Just like how I accept that BOTH faith and works play an intefgral role in ones salvation because the Bible says that BOTH are important and essential.

There are some whose sins are forgiven.
There are some who will claim to accept Christ and will NOT be accepted.
There are some whose sins WILL NOT be forgiven.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. (Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV)

Trying to twist this passage [and others like it] demonstrates indoctrination in some belief other that what the Bible says.

Originally posted by RJHinds
What about the guy that shot to death a bunch of kindergarden children and when the police came, he shot himself to death so he would get away without punishment? But we have a God of justice that will make sure he gets plenty of punishment in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.

Hitler had millions of Jews burned to death in furnaces. Hitler killed himself ...[text shortened]... would be tormented forever, a fitting revenge, if God is really a God of Justice for his people.

According to the OSAS gang .. he gets away. He might lose some reward but still get eternal life in the end.

Such a BS doctrine.

Originally posted by divegeester
Moving on from the "eternal suffering" topic, I would like to explore the beliefs here on whether or not Christians who commit suicide go to heaven or hell.

This is possibly a less obviously controversial topic but I do invite those with a POV to state it and the reasons why.

Just because we/you/they argue over it, does not necessarily mean that t ...[text shortened]... in those who do. We should contend for truth and contending is frequently contentious.

Best.

Depending on your nomination... (which can vary the interpretation)... if you believe that Jesus is the saviour sent by God and killed for your sins... you go to Heaven.

Various folk in the bible commit suicide for a greater good (Samson, for example).

Jesus committed suicide... didn't he?
Mhmmm...

As for me... any God that can create "a great flood" shouldn't whine if someone wants to top themselves.

Originally posted by RJHinds
What about the guy that shot to death a bunch of kindergarden children and when the police came, he shot himself to death so he would get away without punishment? But we have a God of justice that will make sure he gets plenty of punishment in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.

Hitler had millions of Jews burned to death in furnaces. Hitler killed himself ...[text shortened]... would be tormented forever, a fitting revenge, if God is really a God of Justice for his people.

oops

Originally posted by checkbaiter
Did I say they wouldn't be punished? Man! It is like you just skipped over everything I said and moved right to a defensive position which has no bearing on what I just said...

I believe my post was a reply to one by divegeester. I did not mean to crticize what you posted. Sorry, if there was a misunderstanding.

Originally posted by RJHinds
I believe my post was a reply to one by divegeester. I did not mean to crticize what you posted. Sorry, if there was a misunderstanding.

No, it was my mistake, I thought I replied to Rajk

Originally posted by checkbaiter
No, it was my mistake, I thought I replied to Rajk

I will reply to your post later. Im having a few cold beers with some friends. Telling them that they need to change their lives and do good works 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
I will reply to your post later. Im having a few cold beers with some friends. Telling them that they need to change their lives and do good works 🙂

Getting them drunk does not seem like a good way to convince them to change their lives for good works.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Getting them drunk does not seem like a good way to convince them to change their lives for good works.

Here is a good example of you not being able to read and understand simple English and inserting your own interpretation into what was said.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Here is a good example of you not being able to read and understand simple English and inserting your own interpretation into what was said.

That sounds like a description of every Christian I have ever discussed Bible verses with.

Originally posted by shavixmir
Depending on your nomination... (which can vary the interpretation)... if you believe that Jesus is the saviour sent by God and killed for your sins... you go to Heaven.

Various folk in the bible commit suicide for a greater good (Samson, for example).

Jesus committed suicide... didn't he?
Mhmmm...

As for me... any God that can create "a great flood" shouldn't whine if someone wants to top themselves.

I agree with your principles here.

Originally posted by RJHinds
What about the guy that shot to death a bunch of kindergarden children and when the police came, he shot himself to death so he would get away without punishment? But we have a God of justice that will make sure he gets plenty of punishment in the Lake of Fire and Brimstone.

Hitler had millions of Jews burned to death in furnaces. Hitler killed himself ...[text shortened]... would be tormented forever, a fitting revenge, if God is really a God of Justice for his people.

Hinds...we are talking about Christians who commit suicide and where they go. Talking to you is hard bloody work.

Originally posted by divegeester
Moving on from the "eternal suffering" topic, I would like to explore the beliefs here on whether or not Christians who commit suicide go to heaven or hell.

This is possibly a less obviously controversial topic but I do invite those with a POV to state it and the reasons why.

Just because we/you/they argue over it, does not necessarily mean that t ...[text shortened]... in those who do. We should contend for truth and contending is frequently contentious.

Best.

I haven't read the other posts here. Just replying to your question.

When i was young, i was taught suicide was a mortal sin. Basically a ride to hell.

But then in my teens, i knew a man who committed suicide. I couldn't see how God could condemn anyone who was so distraught. (he was driving in the mountain, and had an accident. He was the only survivor. )

In my lifetime i've known three people who committed suicide. All three did so after experiencing a life altering moment.

I feel that when it comes to subjects like suicide, we shouldn't judge. Pray for them would be best.

Originally posted by Pudgenik
When i was young, i was taught suicide was a mortal sin. Basically a ride to hell.
In my lifetime i've known three people who committed suicide. All three did so after experiencing a life altering moment.
I feel that when it comes to subjects like suicide, we shouldn't judge. Pray for them would be best.

Obviously you still believe what you were taught in your catholic upbringing. JS357 posted a link on page one which offers some different perspective albeit doesn't pull back from the doctrine completely.

There is zero evidence in scripture (although I open to being shown differently) that Christian suicides got to hell. It's another horrendous doctrine of death designed to keep the laity in a web of fear.

As for "praying for the dead", this is another catholic creed which can be debated elsewhere. However if you don't believe the in 'doctrine of death' about Christian suicides, then you don't need to pray for them.

Originally posted by divegeester
Obviously you still believe what you were taught in your catholic upbringing. JS357 posted a link on page one which offers some different perspective albeit doesn't pull back from the doctrine completely.

There is zero evidence in scripture (although I open to being shown differently) that Christian suicides got to hell. It's another horrendous doctri ...[text shortened]... lieve the in 'doctrine of death' about Christian suicides, then you don't need to pray for them.

Suicides, non-believers, the non-baptiszed, fallen spirits, and a host of others that i'm sure others would jump on some crazy bandwagon. Hell bound.

I can not agree with at all!

All things are possible in God. (fallen spirits)

On a reality note, what of a bed ridden person. Can't speak from birth. Are they going to hell just because they can't profess Jesus as Lord and savior. What of the mental handicapped, what of the aborted children who were never baptized. What of the child who is brought up in the violence of a African gang. It is all he knows. At his death will God send him to hell. How could it be justified?

I'm glad i'm not God.

I don't struggle in my concepts. There are many things 'I' don't know, but it isn't my place to judge them. That is God's job.