Statement of belief

@sonship said

The son is an expression of the father, as it says in the Colossians; he is the exact representation of his being. The same person manifested.

How does that argue that the Son is not eternal ?
It argues FOR the Son being eternal.

He also expresses God in His being eternal.

The flesh of Jesus Christ had a beginning, the flesh of Jesus Christ is not eternal. It is the flesh of Jesus that is the son.

This is irrefutable.

I found the statements about the son as a temporary sort of manifestation curious. I had never quite read anything like that before. I felt right away like this has to be something that is incredibly problematic...

But then again, I was not sure.

I think I need to sleep on it, lol.

I am curious, where did you come up with this, dive? What was your inspiration? Is there some sect somewhere that I do not know about which focuses on this sort of thing?

@philokalia said
I found the statements about the son as a temporary sort of manifestation curious. I had never quite read anything like that before. I felt right away like this has to be something that is incredibly problematic...

But then again, I was not sure.

I think I need to sleep on it, lol.

I am curious, where did you come up with this, dive? What was your inspiration? Is there some sect somewhere that I do not know about which focuses on this sort of thing?

@divegeester

The flesh of Jesus Christ had a beginning, the flesh of Jesus Christ is not eternal. It is the flesh of Jesus that is the son.

This is irrefutable.

But since we are talking about Statements of Faith (pretty much) I will quote a section of a Statement about God which I do affirm. Its a portion.

Copied from

A Longer Response to
“An Open Letter to the Leadership of
Living Stream Ministry and the ‘Local Churches’” [my bolding]

https://www.lctestimony.org/LongerResponse.html

The Divine Trinity: A Concise Biblical Overview
We affirm that the most fundamental declaration in the Bible concerning God’s being is that He is one God (Deut. 6:4; Isa. 45:5; Psa. 86:10; 1 Cor. 8:4; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 2:5). Yet He is also revealed to have the aspect of three: in the Old Testament He refers to Himself in both singular and plural terms (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8), and in the New Testament the explicit designations of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are used (e.g., Matt. 28:19; Gal. 4:6; cf. 2 Cor. 13:14). Contrary to the commonly held notion that the three are separate and individual persons, thus implying three Gods, we hold that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are three hypostases, or persons, distinct though not separate, of the one indivisible God. We affirm that the three are each equally God: the Father is God (1 Pet. 1:2; Eph. 1:17), the Son is God (Heb. 1:8; John 1:1; Rom. 9:5; Titus 2:13; John 20:28), and the Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4). We also believe the scriptural testimony that each of the three is equally eternal: the Father is eternal (Isa. 9:6), the Son is eternal (Heb. 1:12; 7:3), and the Spirit is eternal (9:14). Hence, we understand the three to coexist eternally. We do not hold to the notion that the three distinctions in God are temporal or economic modes of His existence which successively begin and end as He accomplishes the successive steps of His economy in time. In witnessing to Their coexistence, the New Testament often portrays the three as operating together simultaneously in the harmony of one manifest action (Matt. 3:16-17; John 14:16-17; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 3:14-17; Rev. 1:4-5). The biblical data convince us, therefore, that the three of the Divine Trinity coexist from eternity to eternity and are each fully God without being three separate and independent persons. Mysteriously, the one God is three.

Coinherence and Incorporation
But the relationship among the three of the Trinity is defined by more than mere coexistence, for the testimony of Scripture is that the three mutually indwell one another in a dynamic interrelation that some theologians have termed coinherence. By the term we understand that the three of the Trinity mutually exist and mutually indwell one another. In this eternal relationship of coinherence, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit have never been, nor ever can be, separated. The Lord Jesus’ own testimony of His coinherence with the Father and of the Father’s with Him is quite clear: “the Father is in Me and I am in the Father” (John 10:38; cf. 14:10-11, 20; 17:21), and the coinherence of the Spirit with the Father and of the Spirit with the Son is quite clear from the many titles of the Spirit in the New Testament: “the Spirit of God” (Rom. 8:9; 1 John 4:2); “the Spirit of your Father” (Matt. 10:20); “the Spirit of the Lord” (Acts 5:9; 2 Cor. 3:17); “the Spirit of His Son” (Gal. 4:6); “the Spirit of Christ” (Rom. 8:9; 1 Pet. 1:11); “the Spirit of Jesus” (Acts 16:7); “the Spirit of Jesus Christ” (Phil. 1:19) ; and “the Lord Spirit” (2 Cor. 3:18).

A Link To

Scholars Who Affirm That the Infinite God Became a Finite Man

https://contendingforthefaith.org/en/scholars-who-affirm-that-the-infinite-god-became-a-finite-man/


Sample of the above article-

John Owen — But this assumption of our nature into hypostatical union with the Son of God, this constitution of one and the same individual person in two natures so infinitely distinct as those of God and man — whereby the Eternal was made in time, the Infinite became finite, the Immortal mortal, yet continuing eternal, infinite, immortal — is that singular expression of divine wisdom, goodness, and power, wherein God will be admired and glorified unto all eternity. John Owen, Christologia, http://www.ccel.org/ccel/owen/christologia.vii.html.

Henry Edward Manning — Here, then we see one great spiritual fact, one great law and mystery, that between God and man there is a person who is both Man and God; consubstantial with the Creator and the creature, the finite and the infinite; that by one consubstantial unity He is God, by the other, Man. Henry Edward Manning, Sermons, vol. 4 (London: William Pickering, 1850), p. 185.

Philip Schaff — The divinity of Christ, and his whole mission as Redeemer, is an article of faith, and, as such above logical or mathematical demonstration. The incarnation or the union of the infinite divinity and finite humanity in one person is indeed the mystery of mysteries.
...
The person of Jesus Christ in the fullness of its theanthropic life cannot be exhaustively set forth by any formulas of human logic. Even the imperfect, finite personality of man has a mysterious background, that escapes the speculative comprehension; how much more then the perfect personality of Christ, in which the tremendous antitheses of Creator and creature, Infinite and finite, immutable, eternal Being and changing, temporal becoming, are harmoniously conjoined! Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, vol. III: Nicene and Post-Nicene Christianity (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1910, 1994), p. 749.

@divegeester said
I've listened to people, read books, the Bible, contemplated, mixed doctrines together to see if they fit and focused on the fundamentals; for example:

Hear oh Israel the Lord your God is one. This is unequivocal and NEVER countermanded anywhere with the Lord your God is three. Therefore if the Lord is ONE then he cannot be three and suddenly all these other teachings ...[text shortened]... son is done.

It is the same one person of God manifested several times to reveal himself to man.

@divegeester said
The flesh of Jesus Christ had a beginning, the flesh of Jesus Christ is not eternal. It is the flesh of Jesus that is the son.

This is irrefutable.

Divegeester, do you believe that Christ bodily rose from the dead?
He ate fish before His disciples. He had a glorified body as a resurrected and glorified MAN.

And after eight days, His disciples were again within, and Thomas ws with them. Jesus camee, though the doors were shut, and stood in the midst and said, Peace be to you.

Then He said to Thomas bring your finger here and see My hands, and bring your hand and out it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing." (John 20:26,27)

And as they were speaking these things, He Himself stood in their midst and said to them, peace to you, But they were terrified and became frightened and thought they beheld a spirit.

And He said to them, Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your heart?

See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you behold Me having.

And when He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet. And while they still did not believe for joy and were marveling, He said to them, Do you have anything to eat?

And they handed Him a piece of broiled fish; and He took it and atte before them." (Luke 24:36-43)

And when I saw Him, I fell at His feet as dead; and He placed His right hand on me, saying, Do not fear, I am the First and the Last ..." (Rev. 1:17)

@sonship said
A Link To

Scholars Who Affirm That the Infinite God Became a Finite Man

https://contendingforthefaith.org/en/scholars-who-affirm-that-the-infinite-god-became-a-finite-man/


Sample of the above article-

John Owen — But this assumption of our nature into hypostatical union with the Son of God, this constitution of one and the same indi ...[text shortened]... icene and Post-Nicene Christianity (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1910, 1994), p. 749.

@sonship said
Divegeester, do you believe that Christ bodily rose from the dead?
He ate fish before His disciples. He had a glorified body as a resurrected and glorified MAN.

[quote] And after eight days, His disciples were again within, and Thomas ws with them. Jesus camee, though the doors were shut, and stood in the midst and said, Peace be to you.

Then He said to Thomas bring y ...[text shortened]... y be all in all, that Christ will put OFF His glorified human body no longer being a glorified MAN ?

@secondson said
Nothing there worthy of refuting because it proves nothing.

I take it though that you think your statement above lends weight to the erroneous conclusion that the Godhead isn't comprised of three distinct personalities, namely, Father, Son and Holy Ghost, of which there is ample evidence for throughout scripture.

That the Son "became flesh" doesn't diminish one wit fr ...[text shortened]... three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

@philokalia said
Most people regard it as a "triune God," and they are the same person, thus the question of one ... somehow ending, or changing, or somehow being diminished or increased at some point is counter to our understanding of it.

God is, as we seem to understand it, changeless.

For similar reasons, plural forms are used in the book of Genesis when God refers to His Acts of creation.

@divegeester said
You may take it anyway you please Joseph.