15 May 06
Originally posted by orfeo"Don't jump off the roof or you'll hurt yourself."
How you decide whether a directive is 'reasonable' or 'arbitrary' seems to depend pretty much on whether you agree with it or not. If your parents had told you to do something you couldn't see the point of, I bet you would have kicked up a stink.
And so much of what you describe as demands, obligations and the like could equally be described as God simply ...[text shortened]... e because it was morally wrong. They told you because they knew it would hurt if you DID!
"Don't deny me love and attention or I'll hurt you."
See a difference? One is a prudent observation. The other is an open threat.
16 May 06
6 edits
Originally posted by LemonJelloI see now why orfeo had a headache. 😞
You're truly lost. You are obviously not filled with the Holy Spirit since your interpretations do not match mine. I pray that you find your way to the ever loving, ever open arms of Jesus Christ -- and right quick too.
16 May 06
Originally posted by aspviper666You weep because you have not tapped into the awesome powers of Jesus Christ. I pray that you do, so that your tears will becomes tears of joy and truth and justice. I was once like you, stubbornly only formulating belief in proportion to the available evidence. Now I know that one must surrender all his earthly possessions to Jesus Christ -- and that includes surrendering one's rationality and cognitive faculties. Jesus wants to save you, aspviper, even though you do have the devil's number in your username. Jesus will forgive you for that! Jesus will forgive you for all your dastardly transgressions against the Word of God!
😞
16 May 06
6 edits
Originally posted by LemonJello*Banging head on wall, to relieve headache.* 🙄
You weep because you have not tapped into the awesome powers of Jesus Christ. I pray that you do, so that your tears will becomes tears of joy and truth and justice. I was once like you, stubbornly only formulating belief in proportion to the available evidence. Now I know that one must surrender all his earthly possessions to Jesus Christ -- an r that! Jesus will forgive you for all your dastardly transgressions against the Word of God!
16 May 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloHow about "Stay in a relationship with me or you'll end up separated from me".
"Don't jump off the roof or you'll hurt yourself."
"Don't deny me love and attention or I'll hurt you."
See a difference? One is a prudent observation. The other is an open threat.
See the difference? My point is that how you choose to characterise God's statements is not the only way they can be characterised.
16 May 06
Originally posted by orfeo"Stay in a relationship with me and love me no matter how seemingly irrational or flatly bizarre my behaviour may seem to you or I will cast you out and make you pay so dearly you'll wish you were dead." God is so obviously a certain type of woman.
"Stay in a relationship with me or you'll end up separated from me".
16 May 06
1 edit
Originally posted by orfeo"Stay in a relationship with me or you'll end up separated from me"
How about "Stay in a relationship with me or you'll end up separated from me".
See the difference? My point is that how you choose to characterise God's statements is not the only way they can be characterised.
How is this not just tautological? Besides, as I have stated, I completely fail to see how separation from God is necessarily a bad thing. If God, in His infinite power, made it such that willful separation from Him entails that I suffer as a necessary consequence, then that is nothing more than the ultimatum 'relate with me, or I'll harm you'. And wouldn't you know it: that's basically what I wrote in the previous post (at the top of the page).
16 May 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloBesides, as I have stated, I completely fail to see how separation from God is necessarily a bad thing.
"Stay in a relationship with me or you'll end up separated from me"
How is this not just tautological? Besides, as I have stated, I completely fail to see how separation from God is necessarily a bad thing. If God, in His infinite power, made it such that willful separation from Him entails that I suffer as a necessary consequence, then that is n ...[text shortened]... ou know it: that's basically what I wrote in the previous post (at the top of the page).[/b]
Just think: if you have never accepted the work on the cross done on your behalf by the Lord Jesus Christ, and if you can just make it throuth the rest of your time on earth refraining from doing so, you will get your wish.
I, for one, do not wish anyone to go that route, especially in light of the fact that the gift of salvation is free. Why go to hell when the price has already been paid? Why go to hell when entrance to heaven is as simple as accepting the work done by someone else as though it were one's own? Why go to hell when entrance to heaven is as easy as non-meritorious faith?
16 May 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloBut His directives do not coincide with true normative claims, as I already pointed out.
Sure, it would be reasonable to think God might have a purpose for us. But maybe you missed this key point: I don't give a shit about God's 'purpose'. If it happened to be the case that His purpose coincided with true normative claims concerning how I ought to live, then in striving to live how I ought to live, I would also be striving to follow God's d ...[text shortened]... esn't); then God will naturally grant me separation from Him. Sounds great to me!
Care to substantiate? What exactly are the normative claims you hold which are in direct contradiction to God's directives?
Your confusion, of course, stems entirely from your stunted moral development. You still cling to the altogether infantile notion that something is morally right just in case God wills it.
My, my, my. I made no such claim. I would however, assert that you claim something is morally right because you have rationalized it as such.
Through one arbitrary means: by loving/glorifying Him. And it's clear to anyone with half a brain that there are better ways to imbue my life with meaning.
That directive is to those who have already chosen to serve. Christ said: "come to me all who are weak and heavily laden and I will give you rest." From a Christian perspective, God is the ultimate reality and any pursuit of meaning outside Him is a fleeting "chasing of the wind". Rather than command it, God invites us to "taste and see that the Lord is good".
I've asked this question previously without an answer from you: How do you imbue your life with meaning?
19 May 06
The bible tells only truth.
The word is the truth and the truth is God.
I celebrate On Christmas because It is the day that we remember that God sent his only Son to die on the cross for all that have sinned. ( which is all) duh, anyway that is why Christians celebrate it, And I think that we should Celebrate Christmas, For we are Honoring the Most Holy Father.
18 Jun 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloLove the sinner, hate the sin. Live by the Law or face the fire. That is why so many people are turned off by religion... They can't put aside their human weakness and selfish desires to try an live up to a moral standard.
Exactly! And this is one reason why your God is such a schmuck. What did Jesus do? He mandated that us sinners do not throw the stones -- we do not fulfill the law. Nevertheless, the law [b]is fulfilled down to the last tittle -- God fulfills it. So, the gay persons, the adulterers, the sassy children -- they will all get their comeupance straigh ...[text shortened]... ltimatum. There's really no way around it Orfeo: as Twain said, your God is a 'malign thug'.[/b]
18 Jun 06
Originally posted by orfeoI don't normally copy my quotes, but if you miised it in another post I think it applies here, too.
Define 'right' - it is SUCH a value laden idea.
I've read the dilemma on a couple of sites. Looks to me like Thomas Aquinas was onto something.
What is a person to do when they believe a law is wrong? There are two competing ideas. One is adherence to the rule of law and a belief in lawful authority. The other is a personal assessment of whether a la ...[text shortened]... nd a 'coward'.
And I will be alive, and you will be dead.
Which of us is right?
Better to die believing, finding there is no judgement and saying "oh, sh!t" than to die not beleiving, finding out there IS a judgement and sayin "oh, sh!t!!"
18 Jun 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloI am glad you have the intellectual capacity to repel this rubbish. Keep up the good work and stay strong. In the mena time, I will keep you in my prayers. May you find peace.
So, God thrusts existence on a bunch of unwitting minds. Then he stipulates that these minds love and glorify Him; else they will be tossed in a lake of fire. And you don't see any problems here? First, playing by such a set of arbitrarily determined rules may be fine if the players involved give assent; I don't know about you, but I never agreed to be ...[text shortened]... othing[/i] to do with God or any sort of relationship with God) will have to suffice.