11 May 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloFREEEEEEEEDOOOOOOOOMMMMM!!!!!
So, God thrusts existence on a bunch of unwitting minds. Then he stipulates that these minds love and glorify Him; else they will be tossed in a lake of fire. And you don't see any problems here? First, playing by such a set of arbitrarily determined rules may be fine if the players involved give assent; I don't know about you, but I never agreed to be ...[text shortened]... othing[/i] to do with God or any sort of relationship with God) will have to suffice.
(insert poking sharp instrument up butt)
11 May 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloNice one. Now we're getting somewhere.
So, God thrusts existence on a bunch of unwitting minds. Then he stipulates that these minds love and glorify Him; else they will be tossed in a lake of fire. And you don't see any problems here? First, playing by such a set of arbitrarily determined rules may be fine if the players involved give assent; I don't know about you, but I never agreed to be ...[text shortened]... othing[/i] to do with God or any sort of relationship with God) will have to suffice.
I'll have to come back to respond to this, as a mid-breakfast post isn't going to do it justice.
13 May 06
Originally posted by orfeoI am sorry about your headache orfeo.I was joking with the watch comment and I was, and still am looking forward to your comments.
Next time I plan on getting a pounding migraine in the middle of an incredibly busy day, I'll be sure to notify you in advance. ðŸ˜
I'll get to it when i get to it, okay?
13 May 06
Originally posted by UllrWhat exactly do you think a heathen is?
Ahh but the point is that the "everything else" that you refer to are not just human trappings that we just happened to have put in there but are in fact pre-Christian ("Heathen"😉 folk customs and holidays that have survived long after the conversion of Europe. It was Christianity that was "put in".
People are people, our customs, our human trappings are just the
work of our personal tastes and views on what is right and wrong.
All a Christian is, is just a person saved by Jesus Christ who walks
with the Lord God now in faith. We all work out our beliefs and
our personal world views on what is right and wrong, and we have
scripture for a clearer picture, with the Spirit of God leading and
teaching as we follow Christ. I'm believe when people used the
words 'true Christian' they were speaking about someone who has
a relationship with God through Christ and wants very much to do
whatever it is that God desires.
As far as should a person hold to any holiday or custom, there
should be a clear reason not to within scripture. With Christmas I
don't see it any at all. I'm also of the mindset that if another
felt otherwise, so be it, don't acknowledge Christmas than.
Kelly
13 May 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloYes, I do. "Sassy" should read rebellious ? "gay person"? What the duce version is that from? Try reading the New King James or King James version.
You obviously do not understand the ways of the true Christian. Through the action of the Holy Spirit, the true Christian knows exactly how to interpret those sections of the Good Book that merely ostensibly present problems for him. For example, when God says in Leviticus that we ought to put gay persons, adulterers, and sassy children to death, you do ...[text shortened]... slated in true-Christianese as 'God loves a cheerful giver and a good strong cup of eggnog'.
13 May 06
6 edits
i]Originally posted by KellyJay[/i]Originally posted by KellyJay
If I'm not mistaken Jeremiah was speaking about other gods, not
about Christmas trees.
Christmas in general is just a holiday to celebrate the birth of Jesus
Christ, who became of one us for our sake. I believe if you do a
study on the setting of Christ birth you will find it was more than
likely in the summer was when Jesus was really born, not Dec. d; let them do what is right in their own
eyes, it isn’t hurting anything either way.
Kelly
If I'm not mistaken Jeremiah was speaking about other gods, not
about Christmas trees.
Yes but if you read the text isn't the false "god" then the tree?
For whatever reason that day was selected it is just a day we celebrate
Jesus' birth day, people don't celebrate it because of God, people
do celebrate it because of God; let them do what is right in their own
eyes, it isn’t hurting anything either way.
True,it does not hurt anything to celebrate Christmas.I understand that the early RCC made their religious celebrations to coincide with the pagan festivals and celebrations to offset the pagan's holiday.
Personally I find the nativity story one of the best in The Bible.The Son of God from such humble beginnings,to be studied and talked about for over 2000 years is awe inspiring.
13 May 06
2 edits
Originally posted by aspviper666Just because us Christians prostrate ourselves before our respective Christmas trees every day during Christmas and pray to it and sacrifice animals in front of it does not mean we refer to the "Christmas tree" as our God.
Yes but if you read the text isn't the false "god" then the tree?[/b]
13 May 06
6 edits
Originally posted by whodeyYou may jest at the idea,(and your joke is lol funny),but doesn't having presents under the tree almost symbolise offerings to it??We sing songs around it and also to it.It reeks of idolity at some level.
Just because us Christians prostrate ourselves before our respective Christmas trees every day during Christmas and pray to it and sacrifice animals in front of it does not mean we refer to the "Christmas tree" as our God.
But I agree it smells nice ,and I have had but one Christmas in my life with no tree(last year),and it sucked totally,and I am not really a Christian.I think at some level Christamas has become a generic holiday and it is aimed at merchandising peoples wants and their desires to make others happy.And the corporations are making bank on it.
13 May 06
Originally posted by aspviper666It's not a bad story, but not as awe inspiring or as gripping as the Die Hard storyline.
Originally posted by KellyJay
If I'm not mistaken Jeremiah was speaking about other gods, not
about Christmas trees.
[b] Yes but if you read the text isn't the false "god" then the tree?
For whatever reason that day was selected it is just a day we celebrate
Jesus' birth day, people don't celebrate it because of God, people
do celebr ...[text shortened]... umble beginnings,to be studied and talked about for over 2000 years is awe inspiring.[/b][/b]
13 May 06
Originally posted by LemonJelloSo, God thrusts existence on a bunch of unwitting minds. Then he stipulates that these minds love and glorify Him; else they will be tossed in a lake of fire.
So, God thrusts existence on a bunch of unwitting minds. Then he stipulates that these minds love and glorify Him; else they will be tossed in a lake of fire. And you don't see any problems here? First, playing by such a set of arbitrarily determined rules may be fine if the players involved give assent; I don't know about you, but I never agreed to be ...[text shortened]... othing[/i] to do with God or any sort of relationship with God) will have to suffice.
Firstly, do you (this question one can only truly answer for oneself) think your existence is worse than your non-existence? If you (for argument's sake) admit that your existence is caused by some higher Being, wouldn't it be reasonable to for this higher Being to have a purpose in creating you?
Secondly, what happens when anything violates its purpose? Should there not be consequences? If your problem with the consequence of hell is one of severity rather than the concept, then a discussion could be opened on what exactly hell is (even though I have shared my thoughts on this many a time and my views are not the popular strawman of God dangling a struggling, helpless victim over a roaring flame and roasting him/her like a marshmallow).
Thirdly, how did God intend for us to derive meaning in life? Could the meaning of love only be understood through the experience or understanding of hate? Could joy only be understood in the light of sadness? Is a smile more beautiful when it is juxtaposed with a frown? Does "home" carry more meaning when there is the rest of the city which is "non-home"? I'd like to believe so. I'd like to think that the perfect world, totally optimized for our pleasure, would have held little meaning. I think it was Chesterton who said that meaning in life is not lost by weariness of suffering, but rather weariness of pleasure.
First, playing by such a set of arbitrarily determined rules may be fine if the players involved give assent; I don't know about you, but I never agreed to be subjected to God's selfish, stupid ultimatum.
And you never agreed to exist. Doesn't that just suck? This is where I think you would do well to have a look into the Christian doctrine of the fall. You have summed mankind's position up quite well with this statement; earth is rebel territory. Mankind has refused to accept God's "stupid" ultimatum -- we are trying to get on with life without Him not realizing that the only reason we have life is because of Him.
Either way, it's clear that your God is a classic example of an oppressor.
At the end of life, there will only be two types of people -- those who say to God: your will be done; and those to whom God will say: your will be done. Hell would be the last vestige of the latter; barred from within, it will be the final bastion of defiance, the only place where God will not force them from; and that is where mankind will truly experience separation from God.
The problem if He exists is that He is an omnipotent oppressor. Regardless of how unjust His methods, we don't have any chance of overthrowing Him.
So what you are saying is that you will "serve" God by your terms? You would rather serve yourself? Then the most self-serving action then, would be to commit suicide in defiance of this existence that God in his "omnipotent oppression" has thrust upon you.
One problem is that I simply don't see how I could ever actually fulfill God's selfish commandment; how could I ever display genuine love for such a megalomaniac (this being, after all, the greatest commandment -- that we love Him without reservation)?
So let's run through this again. How exactly is God a megalomaniac? He didn't consult you when you were brought into existence. He didn't consult you when He created you with a purpose. He gives you the moral directive on how to enjoy life -- and again didn't consult you with the consequences of violating this moral directive. This kinda reeks of circular reasoning.
If you are actually able to delude yourself into the state of possessing genuine love for this God, then that is the dance you dance for Him.
Delude? Perhaps "acceptance" is the word eluding you -- acceptance that your existence is not by your own incredible persona or remarkable genius, but rather as a loan.