Science and God

Originally posted by whodey
For the sake of argument, if God were to be proven, would it change science in any way?

Would it even change you?

It would change God into just another natural entity to be dealt with.*

I don't know about me.

*Edit: if it proved to be the Biblical God, it would be a decidedly powerful entity.

Originally posted by divegeester
But you accept the possibility that an advanced non human being from outside our universe could have created this one?

The Large Hadron Collider at CERN has created a so-called "mini Big Bang."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/large-hadron-collider/8116226/Large-Hadron-Collider-creates-mini-Big-Bang-with-lead-ions.html

Bigger Big Bangs can be created with more energy. With enough energy, it is theoretically possible to create a new, self-sustaining Big Bang that would give rise to another universe. It would either overrun the existing universe, or branch off into its own space-time "bubble" that is dimensionally separate from our universe. I think the latter is supposed to be more likely, and the new universe may have different physical constants and laws.

The amount of energy required to make this happen would be enormous, however. You'd need to harness the energy of a star or many stars, and concentrate it on a single point in space in a controlled fashion. The fabric of space-time would be torn at that point. A so-called Type III (galaxy-scale) civilization could theoretically do this. It's not so much a physical problem as an engineering one, from what I've read.

Originally posted by josephw
To answer the first question, utterly!

The second, no!

🙂 How goes it whodey?

I am doing well, how about yourself. Long time no speak.

Anyhow, I asked the question because I don't think it would change science or atheists. Looking at Biblical examples, we see at times God reveals himself to people, but then they walk away anyway and end up doing their own thing.

As the Bible aptly points out, even demonic forces believe that God exists but it certainly does not save them.

Looking at the repsonses, I would say that most atheists agree with me.

Originally posted by whodey
I am doing well, how about yourself. Long time no speak.

Anyhow, I asked the question because I don't think it would change science or atheists. Looking at Biblical examples, we see at times God reveals himself to people, but then they walk away anyway and end up doing their own thing.

As the Bible aptly points out, even demonic forces believe that Go ...[text shortened]... y does not save them.

Looking at the repsonses, I would say that most atheists agree with me.

"Anyhow, I asked the question because I don't think it would change science or atheists. Looking at Biblical examples, we see at times God reveals himself to people, but then they walk away anyway and end up doing their own thing." -whodey

Would you agree that considerations of the claims of Christ are, in fact, an extremely private matter and that internalizing the concept of a Grace Gift is a process rather than an event? Only Omniscient God reads men's innermost thoughts.

"Kind words do not cost much. They never blister the tongue or lips. They make other people good-natured. They also produce their own image on men's souls, and a beautiful image it is." -Blaise Pascal

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"Anyhow, I asked the question because I don't think it would change science or atheists. Looking at Biblical examples, we see at times God reveals himself to people, but then they walk away anyway and end up doing their own thing." -whodey

Would you agree that considerations of the claims of Christ are, in fact, an extremely private matter and that ...[text shortened]... . They also produce their own image on men's souls, and a beautiful image it is." -Blaise Pascal

Christ did not flaunt his powers, nor did he desire for anyone to know he was the Son of God as evidence of him instructing his disciples not to tell anyone his identity until the appointed time.

I like how he questioned his disciples before revealing to them who he was. "Who do YOU say that I am?" Peter was the only one to get it right, and then Jesus told him that the Father had revealed this to him. We are all in the same boat as Peter. Has the Father chosen to reveal himself to us?

Originally posted by whodey
Christ did not flaunt his powers, nor did he desire for anyone to know he was the Son of God as evidence of him instructing his disciples not to tell anyone his identity until the appointed time.

I like how he questioned his disciples before revealing to them who he was. "Who do YOU say that I am?" Peter was the only one to get it right, and then Jesus t ...[text shortened]... s to him. We are all in the same boat as Peter. Has the Father chosen to reveal himself to us?

"We are all in the same boat as Peter. Has the Father chosen to reveal himself to us?" -Whodey

Peter was an Disciple, living in the Dispensation of the Hypostatic Union of Christ; we live in the Dispensation of the Church Age. Yes, God has chosen to reveal Himself to us. He has also made full provision for reconciling sinful mankind to Himself [through the finished work of Christ in His substitutionary spiritual death on the cross], without compromising His Justice or Righteousness [Divine Integrity]. The work is done; we can neither earn nor deserve this grace gift. It's freely offered to all who choose to receive it by faith alone in Christ alone.

"16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, 'But the righteous man shall live by faith." Unbelief and Its Consequences: "18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:16-20

Originally posted by whodey
For the sake of argument, if God were to be proven, would it change science in any way?

Would it even change you?

Science and God co-exist side by side now. How would it change anything?

The only change would be in the hearts and minds of some humans, for the rest of us it would be business as usual.

Originally posted by wolfgang59
Ok if it would change science "utterly" you should be able to easily give an example.

If you knew God, would that change you?

If it were known by science that the universe was created by "God", do you think scientists would still theorize about evolution?

Originally posted by josephw
If you knew God, would that change you?

If it were known by science that the universe was created by "God", do you think scientists would still theorize about evolution?

Why, oh why, is it that humans must continually spout this tripe that the universe is 'EITHER' A or B, when obviously, it is A 'AND' B? It must have its roots in man's desire to always be right and for someone else to always be wrong.

Originally posted by Grampy Bobby
"We are all in the same boat as Peter. Has the Father chosen to reveal himself to us?" -Whodey

Peter was an Disciple, living in the Dispensation of the Hypostatic Union of Christ; we live in the Dispensation of the Church Age. Yes, God has chosen to reveal Himself to us. He has also made full provision for reconciling sinful mankind to Himself [throu ...[text shortened]... eing understood through what has been made,[/i] so that they are without excuse." Romans 1:16-20

I would agree, God wants his Son to be revealed to the world now and has done so, however, the question still persists. Who is this man called Jesus? The Muslims say just a prophet, the JW's say the Son of God but not apart of the Trinity, the Mormons think he is just one of many gods etc.

In the end, the Father reveals to whom he desires, just like he did to Peter.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Science and God co-exist side by side now. How would it change anything?

The only change would be in the hearts and minds of some humans, for the rest of us it would be business as usual.

Exactly. This is just another way of restating what I said.

The issue is our hearts. It has nothing to do with science.

Originally posted by RJHinds
There was no BIG BANG or EVIL-LUTION either. Get over it.

So you figure the universe has never changed size? How do you explain doppler shift in the stars, the further away they are the redder they become. That is consistent with a universe that was smaller in the past. And it just goes on getting smaller and smaller the deeper into the past we go. No getting around that. Of course you might have your creationist buddy's website video BS rationalizations to put up with but those are opinion pieces, not science. Show me with SCIENCE the universe is young or never changed size.

Originally posted by Suzianne
Science and God co-exist side by side now. How would it change anything?

The only change would be in the hearts and minds of some humans, for the rest of us it would be business as usual.

Well, a real god, say one that created our universe, could come down and tell us the bible was just stories made up by men and the universe really is billions of years old.

I would suspect in that case this god would simply not be believed but instead be called a devil by the likes of RJ and his buddies.

Face it, people are STUPID when it comes to religion. Arrogant, stubborn, compulsive doesn't BEGIN to describe the religious set, so arrogant they would decide a real god coming down to Earth to be a devil and not to be believed.

I would have a good laugh at such a god coming down and telling those billions of duped individuals their bibles, Qurans, Vedas and such are all BS.

It wouldn't change ANYTHING. Killing in the name of religion would still go on, nobody would change their lives over the issue.

You think, for instance, that Baptist church that preaches hate against gays and so forth, they would change their stance? Good luck with that one.

Originally posted by josephw
If you knew God, would that change you?

If it were known by science that the universe was created by "God", do you think scientists would still theorize about evolution?

I realize that you view evolution and creation as mutually exclusive and probably think those that embrace any part of evolution as heretical. However, I warn you that none of us knows the mysteries of creation, only God. The text is ambiguous as to his workings. Creation is covered in just 2 brief chapters in the Bible. Notice how God speaks to the waters to bring forth life. What is going on there Joseph? Of course, you don't know and neither do I.

Back in the day the church interpreted the Bible to mean that the universe revolved around the earth and would burn anyone at the stake who questioned this interpretation of scripture. Naturally you and I scoff at this interpretation today, but it says a lot about the interpretive mistakes Christians have made in the past and the willingness to excommunicate those who oppose such views.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in love with Darwin and Darwin does not seem to have been a Christian. However, that does not mean that there is some truth, scientifically speaking, in what he had said? More than likely had he not been at war with the church and had embraced it, Christians today would have used his findings to explain how God had created the universe and we would not be having this discussion right now.

Originally posted by whodey
Exactly. This is just another way of restating what I said.

The issue is our hearts. It has nothing to do with science.

That surprises me. Isn't having "faith" the most important aspect of Christianity (and possibly most other religions)? The fact that there is no evidence for god but that god expects you to have faith without evidence?

Once god is proved, wouldn't the "faith" aspect disappear?You no longer believe, you know.