@thinkofone said
This is what you do KJ. You take verses out of context and make up whatever meaning suits you.

For example, Isaiah 44 is referring to the nation of Israel. It's figurative.

Isaiah 44
1“But now listen, O Jacob, My servant,
And Israel, whom I have chosen:

This IMMEDIATELY precedes one of the verses you cited. How could have you possibly ignored it? Esp ...[text shortened]... eing referenced in that very verse: "...Fear not, O Jacob my servant, Jeshurun whom I have chosen. "

The point was God does this, it doesn't matter who He was talking too.
So tell me, is the Jesus you talk about now dead and gone, or alive sitting at the
right hand of God?

Romans 8:34
Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised—who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

@kellyjay said
We are not here for us, we are here for His plan, purpose, and design. We have
life because He gave it to us, we live because He supports us, and we will die
because He sets the times for all life. The judgment follows, and He has setup the
rescue from that judgment too, that like all things also rests on Him in His
Kingdom since He is the only One that can be trusted he ...[text shortened]... his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

If God exists, I do not think an individual suffering with a terminal disease or mental health deterioration is part of God's 'plan, purpose, and design' nor do I think suicide by a Christian afflicted with such conditions is giving up on God.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
If God exists, I do not think an individual suffering with a terminal disease or mental health deterioration is part of God's 'plan, purpose, and design' nor do I think suicide by a Christian afflicted with such conditions is giving up on God.

I agree He set it up to be very good, but it took a bad turn with the introduction of
evil and wickedness through sin. The results of that took that which was very good
and introduced consequences that have been and are horrific, but the end of
those things are at hand.

@ghost-of-a-duke said
If God exists, I do not think an individual suffering with a terminal disease or mental health deterioration is part of God's 'plan, purpose, and design' nor do I think suicide by a Christian afflicted with such conditions is giving up on God.

Suicide is a scary subject, I don't want to paint it as amoral because it isn't, but at
the same time I think people's minds can be attacked and tortured, and if they
have no hope it may seem like a reasonable out to them. From what I have heard
and read many of them think they are doing their loved ones a favor by opting
out so they don't have to put up with them anymore, others I'm sure have other
reasons. The thing is that God can and does save, nothing in this life He cannot
turn around, and nothing in this life He has not overcome. If the hope is removed
it isn't because it isn't there, its because it the god of this world has hidden it, to
stop us from going to God.

I read something the other day that Canada is thinking about allowing kids to
commit suicide without parental consent, I hope that isn't true. I'm sorry to say
it wouldn't surprise me however if it is.

@thinkofone said
IIRC you at one time said that you support capital punishment.

How does it not "throw that time back into God's face" and "rob God of what He was
going to get out of that life"?

God sets up authority and the rule of law.

Capital punishment has been apart of life from the Old Testament law.
You think that has changed, why?

@thinkofone said
...its also very literal that every life God forms here He appoints a time
for each one to die and move on. So you can pick an event, a judgment, or in one's
sleep we are all going to die.

Rather than "literal", how is that not speculation on your part?

You should read the whole Bible not just your pet verses.

@kellyjay said
We are not here for us, we are here for His plan, purpose, and design. We have
life because He gave it to us, we live because He supports us, and we will die
because He sets the times for all life. The judgment follows, and He has setup the
rescue from that judgment too, that like all things also rests on Him in His
Kingdom since He is the only One that can be trusted he ...[text shortened]... his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

This “fur ball” of churchy religious waffle doesn’t address the clear unambiguous juxtaposition in my post.

@kellyjay said
It is a defeat that takes an eternal solution and applies it to a temporary problem.

What on Earth are you talking about.

These furry platitudes you keep spouting are no substitute for moral coherence.

@divegeester said
What on Earth are you talking about.

These furry platitudes you keep spouting are no substitute for moral coherence.

Trouble comes and goes in this life, opting out is eternal so are the consequences for that action as well.

@divegeester said
Your version of god is a psychopathic monster who will personally “knit” the bodies of unborn children together while at the same time knowing he will in a “breath” be personally torturing them with fire for eternity.

Your concept of god is a twisted knot of moral incomprehension and premeditated apocalyptic genocide.

According to your subjective opinion yes? Or are you positing an objective moral standard here?

@kellyjay said
Very literal, its also very literal that every life God forms here He appoints a time
for each one to die and move on. So you can pick an event, a judgment, or in one's
sleep we are all going to die.

So god knew, in advance, that he was going to drown everyone? When he was creating the world, he knew that his design would cause that event?

@kellyjay said
Trouble comes and goes in this life, opting out is eternal so are the consequences for that action as well.

I don't understand what you are taking about.

@rwingett

So god knew, in advance, that he was going to drown everyone? When he was creating the world, he knew that his design would cause that event?

God's foreknowledge from His transcendent position over all eternity is a very difficult subject for our limited minds to fully understand.

However, Jesus used the event to compare to His second coming - "For just as the days of Noah were, so will the coming of the Son of Man be." (Matt. 24:37)

Would you prefer that you were NOT given this example and warning that YOU may prepare appropriately for the coming wrath of judgment?

Aren't you better off having the example and lesson that YOU would not so likewise perish ? Why not then be thankful that the story of Noah's flood serves as a merciful warning and lesson to you?

@sonship said
@rwingett

So god knew, in advance, that he was going to drown everyone? When he was creating the world, he knew that his design would cause that event?

God's foreknowledge from His transcendent position over all eternity is a very difficult subject for our limited minds to fully understand.

However, Jesus used the event to compare to His second comin ...[text shortened]... not then be thankful that the story of Noah's flood serves as a merciful warning and lesson to you?

1) Do you believe in predestination? Yes I believe you do

2) Do you believe that God "knits" babies together in the womb (as per KellyJay's post in another thread) Of course you do, it's scriptural

3) Do you believe in eternal suffering and torture in hell? Yes you do

No amount of pretentious waffle about "being a very difficult subject to understand" or perhaps ....God works in mysterious ways... can plaster over the 3 - point juxtaposition above which highlights the appalling nonsense of your belief structure.

At least one of the 3 above CANNOT be true.

@divegeester said
Your version of god is a psychopathic monster who will personally “knit” the bodies of unborn children together while at the same time knowing he will in a “breath” be personally torturing them with fire for eternity.

Your concept of god is a twisted knot of moral incomprehension and premeditated apocalyptic genocide.

Do you believe God is only allowed to act in a way that seems to be morally sound to you? Serious question, but I'll doubt you'll answer because your position of moral relativism is self defeating.

This is the flaw in your position: 'everyone should behave as they see fit (moral relativism), except for God He can only behave as Dive sees fit.