22 Jul 17
Originally posted by @dj2beckerOnly God is good, but Jesus only does what God would do. Jesus claims to simply be an extention of God.
Exactly what I had in mind, only God is good.
When we do good, we too can only do good as extention of God, not ourselves.
22 Jul 17
Originally posted by @sonshipNot a very compelling interpretation.
I think that Jesus was telling the young man that if he is willing to call Him good, he should be ready to call Him God.
Only One is good - God.
The logical reading of the text is that Jesus is actually saying not to call him good as only God is good. (In other words, he himself is 'not' God).
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
Not a very compelling interpretation.
The logical reading of the text is that Jesus is actually saying not to call him good as only God is good. (In other words, he himself is 'not' God).
If that is the case then why did Jesus refer to Himself as "The good Shepherd" ?
" I am the good Shepherd, the good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. "(John 10:11)
There's none good but One - God.
This God became incarnated as Jesus - the good Shepherd.
In fact in that same section He underscores His oneness with the Father -
"I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)
22 Jul 17
Originally posted by @sonshipJesus spoke in parables. Didn't you know?Not a very compelling interpretation.
The logical reading of the text is that Jesus is actually saying not to call him good as only God is good. (In other words, he himself is 'not' God).
If that is the case then why did Jesus refer to Himself as [b]"The good Shepherd" ?
" I am the good Shepherd, the good Shepherd ...[text shortened]... oneness with the Father -[/b]
[quote] [b] "I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)
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Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeI got to know a long time ago that Jesus spoke in parables.
Jesus spoke in parables. Didn't you know?
Sorry, the parables of Jesus will not establish your Atheism.
And it is really not honest to take all that you don't believe in the words of Jesus and dismiss it with - "Well, Jesus spoke in parables."
22 Jul 17
Originally posted by @sonshipYou take Jesus literally, only when it suits your purpose. I find that very disingenuous.
I got to know a long time ago that Jesus spoke in parables.
Sorry, the parables of Jesus will not establish your Atheism.
And it is really not honest to take all that you don't believe in the words of Jesus and dismiss it with - "Well, Jesus spoke in parables."
He states clearly that he is not good as only God is good, and yet somehow you twist that to imply he was saying the complete opposite. And yet when he speaks of being a good shepherd, that you take at face value.
22 Jul 17
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeFunny how you assume one must give up a literal view to believe they are one with the good originating in one part of the being.
You take Jesus literally, only when it suits your purpose. I find that very disingenuous.
He states clearly that he is not good as only God is good, and yet somehow you twist that to imply he was saying the complete opposite. And yet when he speaks of being a good shepherd, that you take at face value.
22 Jul 17
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeOr the realization that God is beyond our understanding.
Yes, Christianity does reduce a fellow to fragmented thinking in a desperate pursuit of avoiding polytheistic undertones.
Of course that would not sit well with you.
23 Jul 17
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-dukeThere are a lot of things that Christ says, and a lot that the scriptures teach us about Him.
You take Jesus literally, only when it suits your purpose. I find that very disingenuous.
He states clearly that he is not good as only God is good, and yet somehow you twist that to imply he was saying the complete opposite. And yet when he speaks of being a good shepherd, that you take at face value.
Jesus being the Son of God, the Word of God, is simply stating that the Father whose
Word He is, is the greater, and is giving Him honor. It doesn't diminish Christ, who is the
perfect representation of God we can see and grasp in human form when here, and
glorified as the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of God in heaven making intersection
for us sinners.
23 Jul 17
Originally posted by @kellyjayHave a good Sunday Kelly.
There are a lot of things that Christ says, and a lot that the scriptures teach us about Him.
Jesus being the Son of God, the Word of God, is simply stating that the Father whose
Word He is, is the greater, and is giving Him honor. It doesn't diminish Christ, who is the
perfect representation of God we can see and grasp in human form when here, and
glo ...[text shortened]... s the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of God in heaven making intersection
for us sinners.
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23 Jul 17
2 edits
Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
You take Jesus literally, only when it suits your purpose. I find that very disingenuous.
My purpose is to enjoy Christ who is living.
Standing on His word brings me into that experience.
Now I suggested that Jesus was implying that if he was willing to call Him good he should be ready to call Him God. I think this is a fine understanding of that passage. But there are plenty other places in the New Testament where we can see that Jesus Christ is God incarnate, IF that particular take on Matthew 19:17.
Are you going to try to whack-a-mole all of them down ?
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23 Jul 17
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He states clearly that he is not good as only God is good, and yet somehow you twist that to imply he was saying the complete opposite. And yet when he speaks of being a good shepherd, that you take at face value.
No. The Good Shepherd teaching will get you into more problems with denying Jesus is God, not less.
That chapter establishes that Jesus Christ was God making His journey from heaven down to earth and INTO man, to impart Himself as divine life to His people.
In that teaching Jesus is the door in and the door out of the sheep fold.
As the God of the Old Testament He was the door into the sheepfold of Judaism.
As God come in Jesus Christ He is also the door out of the fold into the pasture.
The Good Shepherd therefore is also the door into the Old Testament and the door out of the Old Testament into the New Testament salvation. In this way Jesus was saying that He was the door IN and the door out. The sheep, God's believers, may go IN AND OUT.
" I am the door, if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved and shall go in and go out and shall find pasture." (John 10:9)
Now He could not mean that He is the door to heaven and people go in and out of Heaven in that sense. But He means the the fold of the sheep is a temporary holding place. But the pasture of the sheep is the place for them to feed, be nourished and receive life.
"I am the door, if anyone enters through Me, he shall be saved and shall go in and out and shall find pasture.
The thief does not come except to steal and kill and destroy, I have come that they may have life and may have it abundantly.
I am the good Shepherd, the good Shepherd lays down His life for the sheep. " (John 10:9-11)
Put it all together and what do you have?
Jesus was the Old Testament God before incarnation Who was the door into the fold of His people. In this age He became the Good Shepherd Who went to the cross to lay down His life for the sheep. Then He is the door on the other side that the sheep may go out of the temporary fold of the Old Covenant into the New Covenant and receive Him as divine and eternal life.
God is good. God is the good Shepherd. God in the door in and God in Christ is the door out into the pasture. There the hungry believers may feast on God Himself as eternal life.