20 Feb 17
Originally posted by Pudgenik...Jesus says it best - to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. And this is what is pleasing to God. Jesus never says in the scripture that ever lasting life depends on any belief, it depends on how you love.Good stuff. What denomination are you.
"Love one another as I have loved you" . If you Love others, even strangers, then God lives in you.
And as far as I'm concerned, I don't c ...[text shortened]... Muslim, Christian or what ever. There are many, from all walks of life in Heaven because they Loved.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by galveston75"Prove to me that my everlasting life depends on believing and accepting the trinity."
Prove to me that my everlasting life depends on believing and accepting the trinity. The churches say it is a must, my baptist cousins say it is a must, some here say it is a must...so, lets hear it if you care about me as a human who will burn forever in hell if you don't prove it to me.
It doesn't.
Having eternal life depends on you receiving it as a gift of God's grace through faith in what Jesus did on the cross on your behalf.
By grace through faith plus nothing.
Of course, it would make more sense to you if you knew the real Jesus. If I were you I wouldn't be so fixated on the trinity question. I'd get focused on identifying who Jesus really is, and not be in doubt as I am certain you are, which is evidenced by the fact that you seem to refuse to address Isaiah 9:6.
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by PudgenikUnbiblical nonsense.
Proving the Trinity is a mater of faith, and understanding Jewish scripture in a literal translation. The Jews won't prove a Trinity, But they knew God was One yet there was the Spirit of God and the Presents of God - the Two are One.
As for your second part - Jesus says it best - to love God and love your neighbor as yourself. And this is what is pleasi ...[text shortened]... im, Christian or what ever. There are many, from all walks of life in Heaven because they Loved.
There is no scriptural evidence to support the idea that one can love their way to eternal life.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by Galveston75But I suspect that Sonship does believe that salvation is dependent on believing the trinity doctrine, but despite me asking him many times to confirm it, he refuses to. I've even started threads on it.
"Prove to me that my everlasting life depends on believing and accepting the trinity."
Reply by josephw
It doesn't.
It's good to see that you doesn't believe it.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by galveston75As I have stated previously, the idea of the trinity is not an issue with me, but it appears to be with you. Rather than direct me to go and research it out perhaps that is what you should do? As far as burning in hell forever as a consequence for not believing in the trinity, that's what you said, it is not a statement I have made.
Your comments:
"From the standpoint of personal experience, I am refuting your assertion that unless you believe in the trinity, you will burn in hell forever. I have never heard that taught in my world. Period.
Do I think you will burn in hell forever if you don't believe in the trinity? No, of course not."
If one does not accept the trinity, i ...[text shortened]... ok on that persons future?
Remember the Trinity is a "biggy" when it comes to church doctrine.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by leunammiBe clear, the "trinity" is not the issue, it is the deity of Christ that is at stake. The trinity doctrine is just an easy target because it is not scriptural.
As I have stated previously, the idea of the trinity is not an issue with me, but it appears to be with you. Rather than direct me to go and research it out perhaps that is what you should do? As far as burning in hell forever as a consequence for not believing in the trinity, that's what you said, it is not a statement I have made.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by josephwI would also add:
[b]"Prove to me that my everlasting life depends on believing and accepting the trinity."
It doesn't.
Having eternal life depends on you receiving it as a gift of God's grace through faith in what Jesus did on the cross on your behalf.
By grace through faith plus nothing.
Of course, it would make more sense to you if you knew the rea ...[text shortened]... ll be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.[/b]
Matthew 1:23 (KJV) Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by divegeesterJust so I am clear, what is trinity doctrine that you say is not scriptural?
Be clear, the "trinity" is not the issue, it is the deity of Christ that is at stake. The trinity doctrine is just an easy target because it is not scriptural.
I don't want to assume we are thinking get the same thing.
Originally posted by josephwWhy do you think I'm ignoring that scripture at Isaiah? Is it because Jesus is also called a god, wonderful, counselor, the mighty god, the everlasting father or the prince of peace? Which is it? Any or all because we have no problem with any of those descriptions the bible uses there.
[b]"Prove to me that my everlasting life depends on believing and accepting the trinity."
It doesn't.
Having eternal life depends on you receiving it as a gift of God's grace through faith in what Jesus did on the cross on your behalf.
By grace through faith plus nothing.
Of course, it would make more sense to you if you knew the rea ...[text shortened]... ll be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.[/b]
But not one of those descriptions means he is Almighty God but has been given those titles and descriptions by his Father Jehovah.
Is it not possible that he is also Mighty as his father is? Is it not possible he is counselor like his father? etc, etc?
Is it not possible you have some of the same qualities just as your father might have?
Anyway I'm posting this scripture that I would think a believer in the trinity might have a hard time with. Here it is clearly giving a description of Jesus in relation to his father. No where does this even hint that Jesus is also his Father in some godhead spirit form.
John 1:18 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
18 "It is true that no one has ever seen God at any time. Yet the divine and only Son, who lives in the closest intimacy with the Father, has made him known."
John 1:18 American Standard Version (ASV)
18 "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 1:18 Amplified Bible (AMP)
18 "No one has seen God [His essence, His divine nature] at any time; the [One and] only begotten God [that is, the unique Son] who is in the intimate presence of the Father, He has explained Him [and interpreted and revealed the awesome wonder of the Father]".
John 1:18 Common English Bible (CEB)
18 No one has ever seen God.
God the only Son,
who is at the Father’s side,
has made God known".
John 1:18 Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
18 No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
John 1:18 International Standard Version (ISV)
18 No one has ever seen God. The uniquely existing God,[a] who is close to the Father’s side, has revealed him.
Shouldn't this have been written differently by God in John to clarify who Jesus really was instead of saying here that Jesus is his son and not the same as himself as in some type of spirit being within himself? And maybe just say we are 2 of a trinity? Sure would make it easier for you guys to explain it...
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by galveston75Isn't believing in more than one god called polytheism?
Why do you think I'm ignoring that scripture at Isaiah? Is it because Jesus is also called a god, wonderful, counselor, the mighty god, the everlasting father or the prince of peace?
Are you a polytheist?
20 Feb 17
Originally posted by galveston75Is Jesus your saviour? Yes
Why do you think I'm ignoring that scripture at Isaiah? Is it because Jesus is also called a god, wonderful, counselor, the mighty god, the everlasting father or the prince of peace? Which is it? Any or all because we have no problem with any of those descriptions the bible uses there.
But not one of those descriptions means he is Almighty God but has ...[text shortened]... nd maybe just say we are 2 of a trinity? Sure would make it easier for you guys to explain it...
Is Jesus a separate being from Jehovah? Yes
Is Jehovah your saviour? Yes
By definition you have two saviours.
According to chapters of scripture this is error
There we are.