Originally posted by Rajk999
Read over the post. I explained it.

We are saved from the sin which we inherited from Adam through the death of Christ. Christ death paid the ransom for us. That is what is meant by 'saved by grace'.

Christ death does not save everyone, neither does it automatically give everyone salvation who simply proclaims their faith in Christ.

So my counter qu ...[text shortened]... have faith, and then proceed to sin and do evil works and still get eternal life. Are you ?

"I hope you are not saying that we can claim to have faith, and then proceed to sin and do evil works and still get eternal life. Are you?"

No.

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

What do you think it means?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so lets get this, a Christian is not required to do anything, he or she can sit and gather
cobwebs while the very stones cry out and everything is fine and dandy, salvation
assured! Is that it? Puts a whole new meaning on the term, self sacrifice.

Thats how they fill the churches these days.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"I hope you are not saying that we can claim to have faith, and then proceed to sin and do evil works and still get eternal life. Are you?"

No.

Galatians 2:19-21 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: neverthless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now liv ...[text shortened]... ighteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

What do you think it means?[/b]

It means Christ has fulfilled the Law of Moses.
We are now under the Law of Christ.

If your faith is real then you will follow the commandments of Christ.
You will have no problem, as Christ is truly within your heart and you will do good works.

However not everyone who proclaims their faith will follow Christ.
The test / proof is in their works.

Christ will judge according to works.

Read Matt 25.

Or do you believe like Jaywill that Matt 25 has a totally different interpretation and does not apply to him.. 🙂

Originally posted by Rajk999
Thats how they fill the churches these days.

its more than i can take, it really is, there is no relief, im gone, given over to despair.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
actually Raj makes an excellent point, the Jesus in Me brigade have missed the point
entirely, for while emphasising personal salvation, personal relationship and personal
choice, they fail to understand that Christianity and the love demonstrated by the
Christ is about self sacrifice and concern for other people, that is putting others
interests ahead of ones own, it was never about self interest, never.

"..,they fail to understand that Christianity and the love demonstrated by the
Christ is about self sacrifice and concern for other people,.."

That's just propaganda talking.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
its more than i can take, it really is, there is no relief, im gone, given over to despair.

Its a sham really. It annoys me.

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"..,they fail to understand that Christianity and the love demonstrated by the
Christ is about self sacrifice and concern for other people,.."

That's just propaganda talking.[/b]

you dont know anything, you have missed the point entirely, its like it bounced of the
side of your head and reverberated out into the stratosphere,

(Ephesians 5:1-2) . . .Therefore, become imitators of God, as beloved children, and
go on walking in love, just as the Christ also loved you and delivered himself up for
you as an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet-smelling odor.

how did Christ love, through self sacrifice, is that scriptural reference also
propaganda, no, well, read it and learn something for once!

Originally posted by Rajk999
It means Christ has fulfilled the Law of Moses.
We are now under the Law of Christ.

If your faith is real then you will follow the commandments of Christ.
You will have no problem, as Christ is truly within your heart and you will do good works.

However not everyone who proclaims their faith will follow Christ.
The test / proof is in their works. ...[text shortened]... like Jaywill that Matt 25 has a totally different interpretation and does not apply to him.. 🙂

If, as you say, we will be judged according to our works, then one must keep the whole law perfectly in order to be saved.

One cannot enter into god's Kingdom with even one sin. NO ONE keeps the law perfectly. Therefore, according to your interpretation, we will all die in our sin.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so lets get this, a Christian is not required to do anything, he or she can sit and gather
cobwebs while the very stones cry out and everything is fine and dandy, salvation
assured! Is that it? Puts a whole new meaning on the term, self sacrifice.

Not what I said, I have never said Christians will not be doing good works.
You have not answered my question either. Why did Jesus die so you could
do good works that were already being done? Works was in place before
Jesus' death, so what changed between God and man? If they were earning
their way to God before Jesus' death why did He have die?

The difference between you and me when it comes to works is that I'm doing
them out of love for God to obey Him, you are trying to get on His good side
because Jesus' death wasn't enough for your salvation.
Kelly

Originally posted by josephw
If, as you say, we will be judged according to our works, then one must keep the whole law perfectly in order to be saved.

One cannot enter into god's Kingdom with even one sin. NO ONE keeps the law perfectly. Therefore, according to your interpretation, we will all die in our sin.

Are you saying then that there will be no judgment?
Christ was very clear that he will judge according to our works.

Do you have references to support that extreme position?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
you dont know anything, you have missed the point entirely, its like it bounced of the
side of your head and reverberated out into the stratosphere,

(Ephesians 5:1-2) . . .Therefore, become imitators of God, as beloved children, and
[b]go on walking in love, just as the Christ also loved you and delivered himself up for
you as an offer ...[text shortened]... is that scriptural reference also
propaganda, no, well, read it and learn something for once![/b]

The propaganda I was referring to was your accusations against Christians that, "..,they fail to understand that Christianity and the love demonstrated by the
Christ is about self sacrifice and concern for other people,.."

That's all you're good for robbie, making accusations.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Are you saying then that there will be no judgment?
Christ was very clear that he will judge according to our works.

Do you have references to support that extreme position?

There will be two judgements.

The great white throne judgement of the dead, and the 'Bema' seat judgement of believers.

Believers will be judged, but not for sin. The penalty for sin was paid for by Jesus on the cross.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Not what I said, I have never said Christians will not be doing good works.
You have not answered my question either. Why did Jesus die so you could
do good works that were already being done? Works was in place before
Jesus' death, so what changed between God and man? If they were earning
their way to God before Jesus' death why did He have die?

The ...[text shortened]... ying to get on His good side
because Jesus' death wasn't enough for your salvation.
Kelly

there are many valid reasons why Christ died, to propitiate for sins, to provide a
corresponding ransom for that which was lost by Adam, to enable those who put
faith in the value of that sacrifice to be declared righteous on its basis, to establish a
new covenant for a kingdom, tell me when you would like me to stop?

No the difference between you and me is you claim to know what motivates others
and have self righteously made a judgement on that basis claiming that you do it
out of love, i know this to be a false hood because as the apostle states, if you really
loved as the Christ did you would be willing to impute pure motives to others,
because, love believes all things, clearly you are not quite there yet,

(1 Corinthians 13:7) . . .It bears all things, believes all things,. . .

Originally posted by josephw
The propaganda I was referring to was your accusations against Christians that, [b]"..,they fail to understand that Christianity and the love demonstrated by the
Christ is about self sacrifice and concern for other people,.."

That's all you're good for robbie, making accusations.[/b]

Lol another self righteous judge of what others are good for, thanks, clearly i was
correct, you really have missed the point. Jesus is simply alien to you as this last
offering of yours demonstrates, still putting a value on peoples worth, oh dear!

(Matthew 12:20) . . .No bruised reed will he crush, and no smoldering flaxen wick will he extinguish, . . .

Originally posted by josephw
There will be two judgements.

The great white throne judgement of the dead, and the 'Bema' seat judgement of believers.

Believers will be judged, but not for sin. The penalty for sin was paid for by Jesus on the cross.

What is BEMA?

I guess the details in Matt 25 about judgment and separation into sheep and goats dont apply to believers.