26 May 14
Originally posted by FMFSure
Sure. I'd be happy enough if you'd actually respond to some of the points that I have made along the way. You have been just cranking out the same little cluster of assertions over and over and over again and not really engaging any of the various ways I have tried to explain, answer and illustrate my position. Shall I compile a few of them? Then you could respo ...[text shortened]... that?
edit: give me a while ~ I'll slap together 4 or 5 points I made that you brushed past.
Kelly
26 May 14
Originally posted by FMFBecause believe it or not, even though you have been saying the same
You are talking about "lies" and being "tricked" and "playing along" and "faking" and being "deceived". What things are you referring to? I have already said, pages ago, that I was not and am not "lying" and I was not "faking it". Why are you still bandying this stuff about? You already asked me about it and i already answered it. Why are you persisting with it?
things over and over again, you never answered, or I believe understood
the point.
Kelly
26 May 14
The drug addict theory of salvation.
"I used to do drugs."
"But you stopped?!"
"Yes. It was taking too much priority over other things."
"I'm a drug user myself. I love getting high. It's the greatest feeling in the world. Nothing else in life matters compared to that. I couldn't possibly walk away from it. In fact, I don't think any true drug user could."
"That's an interesting thought; nevertheless, I did quit, several years ago."
"Well, maybe the purity of your drugs wasn't high enough."
"I'm fairly sure it was."
"OK, so maybe you didn't inject the drugs correctly. You didn't get the full high. Maybe that's it."
"No - I was quite proficient at finding the vein - dead on, every time."
"Hmm. Well, something's just not adding up. Maybe your dealer was selling you stuff that lacked the proper potency."
"Umm - no, I partied with plenty of people who used the same stuff, and it was plenty potent, judging by their reactions. People always said this stuff was some of the strongest they'd ever tried."
"Hmm. Your denial of drugs now makes me question whether you were really a true druggie."
"What?! I just told you I did drugs back in the day."
"I don't believe you."
"Why? What reason do I have to lie?"
"You're just jealous of me because I know how to get high and enjoy it, and you couldn't figure it out!!"
"Huh???! I already told you. I really, really enjoyed getting high. It's just that nothing else in my life was going anywhere when I did that stuff."
....
etc. etc. etc.
26 May 14
Originally posted by FMF1. Presumably you believe that FMF-1994 was right about Jesus and that FMF-2014 is wrong. You surely are not saying both are wrong? How can it be "wrong" in your eyes for someone to strive for salvation by having a relationship with Jesus?
Yes, OK. Please respond to these three attempts to answer your questions and assertions that were kind of swallowed up and ignored is all the questions to me that seemed to be the same over and over and over again. And I am hoping for something specific about these three points, not the generic stuff about 'rejection' and 'faking it' and 'error'. They are verbat ...[text shortened]... don't think you want to apply this logic to yourself. So why do you insist on applying it to me?
I have not been arguing your 1994 self was right and your 2014 was wrong
or the other way around either. I'm not saying either of your time line views
are right or wrong according to me. I have been unsuccessfully pointing out
to you, that you believe your 1994 self is wrong by the stance of you take
in 2014. You changed your views as a reflection of that!
Since you did that, you believe the views you held were wrong. I'm not
trying to put words in your mouth, just show you what you are saying.
I agree at 1994 you believed what you did, but now you are telling me that
you didn't really have a relationship with Christ, so what you had was wrong
and false.
Kelly
26 May 14
Originally posted by FMF1. Presumably you believe that FMF-1994 was right about Jesus and that FMF-2014 is wrong. You surely are not saying both are wrong? How can it be "wrong" in your eyes for someone to strive for salvation by having a relationship with Jesus?
Yes, OK. Please respond to these three attempts to answer your questions and assertions that were kind of swallowed up and ignored is all the questions to me that seemed to be the same over and over and over again. And I am hoping for something specific about these three points, not the generic stuff about 'rejection' and 'faking it' and 'error'. They are verbat ...[text shortened]... don't think you want to apply this logic to yourself. So why do you insist on applying it to me?
I have not tried to get you to see that either your 1994 self or 2014 self
right or wrong according to me. I have been trying to point out you have
declared your 1994 was wrong by your stance you are taking in 2014.
You believed what you believed in 1994, but you rejected it for whatever
reasons you have.
Kelly
26 May 14
Originally posted by FMF3. If you apply the logic of your peculiar technique of 'retrospective erasing' [of someone else's beliefs] to yourself, it means that no one knows ~ including yourself ~ whether you are a Christian right now. I don't think you want to apply this logic to yourself. So why do you insist on applying it to me?
Yes, OK. Please respond to these three attempts to answer your questions and assertions that were kind of swallowed up and ignored is all the questions to me that seemed to be the same over and over and over again. And I am hoping for something specific about these three points, not the generic stuff about 'rejection' and 'faking it' and 'error'. They are verbat ...[text shortened]... don't think you want to apply this logic to yourself. So why do you insist on applying it to me?
No idea why you think I was trying to get you to deny your old beliefs, they
were you old belief, but you changed them.
I was trying to show you that you called your old beliefs wrong, therefore
when you had them in 1994 even though you held those beliefs back then,
NOW you say those were wrong beliefs.
Kelly
26 May 14
Originally posted by KellyJayWhat my beliefs were back in 1994 are not altered by my change in beliefs. My change in beliefs has resulted in my current beliefs and is unable to affect or change what my beliefs were 20 years ago.
I was trying to show you that you called your old beliefs wrong, therefore
when you had them in 1994 even though you held those beliefs back then,
NOW you say those were wrong beliefs.
26 May 14
1 edit
Originally posted by FMFI did not deny it, still not denying it. You had different views like I said,
What my beliefs were back in 1994 are not altered by my change in beliefs. My change in beliefs has resulted in my current beliefs and is unable to affect or change what my beliefs were 20 years ago.
I want the t-shirt, but your current stance says that when you had your
old stance, you were in error to have them, because that old stance is wrong.
So it wasn't real, it was a bad stance that you had, you now reject.
Kelly
26 May 14
Originally posted by KellyJayHuh? You kept saying over and over and over and over again that my old beliefs were "wrong" and in "error" and "not real" because later they changed. You seem to have a peculiar recollection of how you have been behaving on this thread.
No idea why you think I was trying to get you to deny your old beliefs, they were you old belief, but you changed them.
26 May 14
Originally posted by FMFYou have had two different views that both cannot be true at the same
Huh? You kept saying over and over and over and over again that my old beliefs were "wrong" and in "error" and "not real" because later they changed. You seem to have a peculiar recollection of how you have been behaving on this thread.
time!
When you held on to one, it was true.
When you changed it, the first view cannot be true.
So whoever whenever anyone you included had that first view they are now
holding on to a bad or wrong view.
Kelly
26 May 14
Originally posted by KellyJayIt was real. Nothing you can say can alter the fact that it was real for me. The stance that, I assume, you think is "a bad stance" is the one I have now. Am I right? You would have been in agreement with me about Christ when I had a relationship with Jesus 20 years ago. That, surely, was the stance of mine that you would have agreed with.yes?
So it wasn't real, it was a bad stance that you had, you now reject.