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Yes, but they are still hypothesis by theists who actually think parts of the story are true. Non-theist historians largely agree that the story is not supported by history and likely is not true.

Originally posted by whodey
The reason God hardened his heart I think is because of the Pharaoh killing the first born of the Hebrews in search of snuffing out their deliverer Moses before the plagues began.

It's called an eye for an eye. The same was then done to them.

So you believe in collective inherited responsibility? ie if I kill your son, you can kill my cousins son in retaliation? Even if my cousins son had nothing whatsoever to do with anything?

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But it has to be admitted that they were supposedly delivered by a murderous God, and the very name of the festival is based on a horrendous act by said God.

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Agreed, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. And yes, Egypt did used to have plagues as do many other parts of the world then and now.

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It sounds to me that your Jewish friend took a very defensive posture to a reasonable question, as if to say "don't ruin my party man with talking about those kids".

I am not poorly informed, as the entire story is in the Bible. When I hear the term "pass over", it invokes a vision of the angel of death killing innocent children one night in Egypt, including the death of Pharaoh's child. Yes, the deliverance of the people of Moses happened after this 'event', plague 10.....and if today's Jewish people are going to celebrate the deliverance, then they shouldn't require a hush hush attitude on the rest of the story.

Perhaps a different name could have been chosen to celebrate their deliverance?

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It's kinda funny how you speak to people indirectly when they make your naughty list.

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As I already stated, your friends seem quite content to celebrate Passover with food, drinks, games, etc. to celebrate the deliverance of their ancestors.....but want to completely ignore, or neatly evade any questions regarding the rest of the story. I'm sorry, but it's the Bible, not chaney3, that describes the death and horror of ALL 10 plagues, not just the final one.

Just because they are Jewish, and I'm not, shouldn't stop a discussion of what they believe about the plagues, and most curiously, God's involvement in the entire matter with hardening Pharaoh's heart to ensure the pain and suffering would precede the deliverance.

And Duchess64, since you just quoted the book of Exodus in another forum, I would assume that maybe you are familiar with the story yourself, and thought you would comment?

The story of the Exodus, as told in the Bible is a tale of horrors. If a person believes that this actually happened, then only God knows exactly why it needed to unfold the way it did. And if the Jewish people find questions about it offensive, then maybe they need to look no further than the Bible (or Torah) to see the real offense.

Originally posted by chaney3
As I already stated, your friends seem quite content to celebrate Passover with food, drinks, games, etc. to celebrate the deliverance of their ancestors.....but want to completely ignore, or neatly evade any questions regarding the rest of the story. I'm sorry, but it's the Bible, not chaney3, that describes the death and horror of ALL 10 plagues, not just ...[text shortened]... sive, then maybe they need to look no further than the Bible (or Torah) to see the real offense.

Assuming you soon come to an understanding and acceptance of what it is to be a Christian, and perhaps decide that you are one, how are you going to cope with all the unpleasantness such as these plagues that you find in the Old Testament?

Originally posted by divegeester
Assuming you soon come to an understanding and acceptance of what it is to be a Christian, and perhaps decide that you are one, how are you going to cope with all the unpleasantness such as these plagues that you find in the Old Testament?

I don't know. The only plausible explanation that would suffice is the one used in other 'problem writings' in the Bible, which is: We cannot understand the mind of God, and it's His will.

I don't think God would mind it when a human looks to the sky and asks...."Was it necessary"?....."Couldn't You have just left Pharaoh alone, and maybe he would have set the people free without all this carnage"?

I was just asking questions, and instead of getting some feedback from Duchess's Jewish friends, they instead chose to chastise me for asking.

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Lol, lol, lol. I'm sorry but that was funny to me.....how I don't have any Jewish friends.

Okay Duchess64, I will find a Jewish person and ask my questions directly. Your Jewish friends are officially off the hook.

Now I want a Jewish friend, lol. 🙂