No truth in ANY religion.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
yes i have encountered it, but none of it is satisfactory, can you not explain it is simple terms, with reference and example, after all, you did make the assertion, did you not? The fact that the principle may be older and more widespread is besides the point.

No, I can't see any even half-decent reason to cobble such a post together for you to dismiss out of hand using, on past form, some or other form of fallacious argument.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok, i can wait, are you sure the NYT did not state the greatest science fiction writer of our generation?

'the sort of popular science fiction writing that makes the reader feel like a genius',

You can wait for what exactly?! You want to know the answer to your question go read the book. You'll be able to pick it up in your local library, i would send you this one when i've read it but it's not my copy. Remember your words to divegeester in another thread recently -

i dont need to explain anything to you, get it. If you are too lazy to look it up then i have better things to do than discuss it with people who have not.

and

i will discuss it with those who have researched it, if you are unwilling, too lazy, disinclined, then spare me, i have better things to do.

Nothing like heeding your own advice is there?? 😉

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
No, I can't see any even half-decent reason to cobble such a post together for you to dismiss out of hand using, on past form, some or other form of fallacious argument.

so you cannot produce one reference, one example to substantiate the claim, hum ho, life goes on.

Originally posted by Proper Knob
You can wait for what exactly?! You want to know the answer to your question go read the book. You'll be able to pick it up in your local library, i would send you this one when i've read it but it's not my copy. Remember your words to divegeester in another thread recently -

i dont need to explain anything to you, get it. If you are too lazy ...[text shortened]... me, i have better things to do.

Nothing like heeding your own advice is there?? 😉

i can wait for you to produce a single example of why in evolutionary terms we appreciate art and beauty, music and have innate altruistic tendencies. I have read not a few articles posted by ringwett on the subject in previous discussions, the mere fact that i will not be forced to read your citations does not negate this, it is after all, not a discussion of the selfish gene, but a statement made by avalanchthecat. When you are ready.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
so you cannot produce one reference, one example to substantiate the claim, hum ho, life goes on.

This post is an excellent example of why I chose not to discuss this issue with you Robbie. It is wholly disingenuous, and I find it both surprising and disappointing that a man inclined to christianity and with such an obviously good intellect and education would persistently opt to debate in such a fashion. Still, as you say, life goes on.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
This post is an excellent example of why I chose not to discuss this issue with you Robbie. It is wholly disingenuous, and I find it both surprising and disappointing that a man inclined to christianity and with such an obviously good intellect and education would persistently opt to debate in such a fashion. Still, as you say, life goes on.

Actually i dont want to debate anything, i merely wondered if you could provide a single reference for your statement, for in the past this has proved problematic to the materialist as it is perhaps one of the 'weakest', areas of the materialists argument, for many 'principles', appear to be opposed to, or at very least, incongruous with the evolutionary stance. But if it must remain a secret, then so be it. Perhaps art and music, beauty and abstract thought are now also being made subject to the geneticist as the materialist seeks to reduce everything to that which is material, from sexuality to criminality. The implications of this are of course, huge.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Actually i dont want to debate anything, i merely wondered if you could provide a single reference for your statement, for in the past this has proved problematic to the materialist as it is perhaps one of the 'weakest', areas of the materialists argument, for many 'principles', appear to be opposed to, or at very least, incongruous with the evoluti ...[text shortened]... rialist seeks to reduce everything to that which is material, from sexuality to criminality.

Neither is it a 'secret'. Quite simply, I already know what your views on the matter will be, and I have no interest in discussing them or mine with you. Nor am I interested in scoring points at your expense, so let's just drop it, shall we?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Neither is it a 'secret'. Quite simply, I already know what your views on the matter will be, and I have no interest in discussing them or mine with you. Nor am I interested in scoring points at your expense, so let's just drop it, shall we?

This is not about my views, its about yours. I have invited you now three times to express them, i can do no more catdude, i am not a beggar to be begging at your door, i will acquiesce to your wishes and leave it at that.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
This is not about my views, its about yours. I have invited you now three times to express them, i can do no more catdude, i am not a beggar to be begging at your door, i will acquiesce to your wishes and leave it at that.

Yes, I am aware that it was my views you were after. And, as I said, I'm not interested in discussing them with you. We have had three in-depth discussions, you and I, and, at the risk of offending you, I'm afraid I have consequently formed an unflattering opinion of your debate style which does not engender in me a desire to repeat the experience.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Yes, I am aware that it was my views you were after. And, as I said, I'm not interested in discussing them with you. We have had three in-depth discussions, you and I, and, at the risk of offending you, I'm afraid I have consequently formed an unflattering opinion of your debate style which does not engender in me a desire to repeat the experience.

ok, thats fine, after being soundly whupped in all three occasions, i understand your reticence.

Can anyone provide a single example in evolutionary terms, of why we appreciate beauty and art? Letters on a postcard to Robbie at RHP.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
ok, thats fine, after being soundly whupped in all three occasions, i understand your reticence.

And, unsurprisingly, there you go again. Do you really enjoy behaving like this? Is 'point scoring' in debate that important to you that you'll employ any technique, no matter how distasteful, to achieve it?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
And, unsurprisingly, there you go again. Do you really enjoy behaving like this? Is 'point scoring' in debate that important to you that you'll employ any technique, no matter how distasteful, to achieve it?

Actually dear avalanchethecat, I am only making fun please do not take it personally, i am only messin, there is no intent in it, its difficult to discern at face value, i know from text, but its true. I have already stated i dont want to debate anything with you, but to answer your question, can i take the fifth amendment on that lest i incriminate myself, for it seems to me that I should answer that if you want to win, then its realpolitik, but i dont really care about winning i was genuinely interested in what you had to say, but i realise that what has transpired in the past, it was difficult for you to believe this and you are reticent, but that's ok, i really dont mind that either.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
Actually dear avalanchethecat, I am only making fun please do not take it personally, i am only messin, there is no intent in it, its difficult to discern at face value, i know from text, but its true. I have already stated i dont want to debate anything with you, but to answer your question, can i take the fifth amendment on that lest i incriminate ...[text shortened]... lt for you to believe this and you are reticent, but that's ok, i really dont mind that either.

'Making fun' or 'messin' you may be, but if so it REALLY gets in the way of reasoned debate and exchange of views. Of course I don't take it personally - I just find it terribly disappointing that we can't discuss these matters reasonably.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
i can wait for you to produce a single example of why in evolutionary terms we appreciate art and beauty, music and have innate altruistic tendencies. I have read not a few articles posted by ringwett on the subject in previous discussions, the mere fact that i will not be forced to read your citations does not negate this, it is after all, not a discussion of the selfish gene, but a statement made by avalanchthecat. When you are ready.

Read the book, all your answers are there.

Originally posted by epiphinehas
[b]No fundamental truth, there are too many religions saying too many contradictory things for there to be truth in any of them.

I understand your frustration, but your statement is completely illogical. Just because two (or more) religions contradict each other doesn't necessarily entail they are both (or all) wrong.

Nobody knows anything ...[text shortened]... I being controlled? Please enlighten me, because so far this has not been my experience.

There is no truth in any religion that is so subtle it has to come from a god. All the 'truths' of religions these days and in the past come from intelligent humans, by far and away men, women being in the vast minority, that has never needed a god to come down to the mountain to expound upon human failings and issue commands and so forth. It is patent nonsense that a god is needed to give such pithy advice.

God supposedly said a man is worth 50 Sheckles, a woman only 35 sheckles. This did not come from a god. This came from a man, as clearly as the nose on my face.

You are being controlled just by buying into the entire scam. Free your mind, get out while you are still sane.