05 Dec 10
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Originally posted by black beetlethe way i understood it dear Beetle was that desire as linked with pain and suffering, especially if these desires went unfulfilled, for example whoever has loved another and that love was not reciprocated has a very painful experience, because the desire of his or her heart may never be realised, thus it was the goal of the adherent to eliminate these desires and free themselves of suffering. It seems to me that what you are saying beetle is that one must first know the variations in order to understand them so that they may be abandon later to be truly free, is it not the case?
Not exactly, there is time for silence and time for speach🙂
In our zennist tradition, the direct understanding of the cosmic reality (nirvana/ nibbana) is a condition where there is nothing to be ceased. Nibbana is not the cessation of the negativity (desire, hate, delusion) and, then, the cultivation of a positive attitude (peacefulness, compassion, ...[text shortened]... sire and ataraxia or between hatred and compassion because the dualist approach is abandoned
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05 Dec 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI'm glad the reasoning behind the post was understood, I was worried my oh so brief 'could be psychological, could be motivational' comment was rather watered down with my own experiences. I appreciated you comments, very much ! Dean.
Sir, one can but admire the candour of this text and i agree with you whole heartedly as one having some experience with psychiatric practice. The use of drugs to treat illnesses of the mind seems to me is based on a purely materialistic approach in that it is assumed that the catalyst for such ailments is based on chemical imbalances of the mind. T ...[text shortened]... hat everything can be solved materially, when in fact, we are much more complicated than that.
05 Dec 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe way you understood it is the way Theravandists understand it; the practitioners of the Mahayana systems understand nibbana as a condition that transcends dualism
the way i understood it dear Beetle was that desire as linked with pain and suffering, especially if these desires went unfulfilled, for example whoever has loved another and that love was not reciprocated has a very painful experience, because the desire of his or her heart may never be realised, thus it was the goal of the adherent to eliminate the ...[text shortened]... order to understand them so that they may be abandon later to be truly free, is it not the case?
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05 Dec 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI think you are ascribing effects to your faith that are independent of it.
i think because my faith is a vehicle which has helped me transcend myself, in the sense that it is like a mirror into which one peers and sees traits and intentions of the heart and mind reflected against the backdrop of a superlative example. Thus we are able in a sense to gauge our shortcomings. Indeed without this tangible source i doubt very m ...[text shortened]... hat it could be done, for it is if not impossible, difficult to see ourselves truly objectively.
05 Dec 10
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Originally posted by avalanchethecatmmm, not really, the idea is one of a complete metamorphosis, so that which went before is unrecognisable from that which came after the adoption of faith. This i don't think can be attributed to any independent agency. If it can, i cannot see what it is.
I think you are ascribing effects to your faith that are independent of it.
05 Dec 10
Originally posted by black beetlemmm, there is indeed some differences here which i as not aware of 🙂
The way you understood it is the way Theravandists understand it; the practitioners of the Mahayana systems understand nibbana as a condition that transcends dualism
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05 Dec 10
Originally posted by menace71deep thinker manny, Lol, i just love to daydream 🙂
R.C. it's called being a melancholy 🙂 I'm bet your a great thinker but you know that all of the material is vanity. I find myself in a very similar state but I do have the desire to do more with my life.
Manny
05 Dec 10
Originally posted by RevRSleekeryou are most welcome Dean, in fact we should be thanking you for your experiences 🙂
I'm glad the reasoning behind the post was understood, I was worried my oh so brief 'could be psychological, could be motivational' comment was rather watered down with my own experiences. I appreciated you comments, very much ! Dean.
05 Dec 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieZen (Chinese: chan, S.: Dhyana, Pali: jhana) is understood at three levels: at the highest level it means “Ultimate Absolute Reality that stands above all the Names”; at the middle level it is the satori (direct understanding of the essence of the Highest Zen); at the lowest level is “meditation”.
mmm, there is indeed some differences here which i as not aware of 🙂
There are five main categories of Zen:
1. Zen of Zen Buddhism, 2. Theravanda Zen, 3. Mahayana and Vajrayana Zen, 4. Non-Buddhist Zen and 5. Pseudo-Zen.
Zen Buddhism is considered the fastest way for the satori, and its types are two: the Tathagata Way (meditation practiced by the historical Buddha, with emphasis on the realization of the Ultimate Absolute Reality) and the Patriarch Way (meditation practiced by the Zen patriarch Bodhidharma -but this Way also draws its origins by a specific type of meditation that was offered by the historical Buddha; this Zen gives emphasis to the direct practice of the Tathagata Zen. Now, the Patriarch Zen envelops two types of cultivation of the satori: the Slow Luminous Zen, and the Common Zen, known also as Koan Zen. The Slow Luminous Zen student meditates in order to become one with the Ultimate Absolute Reality, whilst the practitioner of the Koan Zen is pushed constantly to a dead end by means of being forced to solve her/ his koan, until the moment s/he gets a direct understanding of the Ultimate Absolute Reality by the time of her/ his satori).
The practitioner of the Theravanda Zen at first overcomes the Five Obstacles (desire of mundane pleasures, defected health, laziness, doubt and lack of concentration) and then he achieves to focus his mind on the concept of the impermanence, on the concept of suffering and on the concept of the absence of the existence of the soul. Over here, there are two types of meditation (Peaceful Meditation and Transcendental Meditation), and these two types are also recognized by the Mahayana and Vajrayana systems.
Your personal understanding is the approach of Theravanda Zen that has four stages: at the first, the meditator achieves inner peacefulness and he is not disturbed by phenomena out of his self. At the second, he achieves one-pointedness. At the third, he achieves mindfulness, and at the fourth he breaks free from all kinds of affliction at phenomena of the Floating World. The final aim of the Theravanda Zen practitioner is to destroy all the seeds of his karma and, thus, to achieve his nibbana and become an Immovable
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05 Dec 10
Originally posted by robbie carrobieI am experiencing the exact opposite thing.
I find myself in a position of having no pressing desires. I do not want to be richer, nor poorer, more loved by those who are close to me, nor liked by those who are far away. I do not want to reside on a tropical island nor do i wish to be famous. I have no desire to create, to build, nor to tear down. I do not desire power or a position of exce ...[text shortened]... on of not really desiring anything at all. Am i enlightened or clinically depressed or neither?
I am enlightened. 😲
05 Dec 10
Originally posted by black beetleGod damn! So many different types of Zen.
Zen (Chinese: chan, S.: Dhyana, Pali: jhana) is understood at three levels: at the highest level it means “Ultimate Absolute Reality that stands above all the Names”; at the middle level it is the satori (direct understanding of the essence of the Highest Zen); at the lowest level is “meditation”.
There are five main categories of Zen:
1. Zen of Zen B ...[text shortened]... destroy all the seeds of his karma and, thus, to achieve his nibbana and become an Immovable
😵
I have no problems with your qualifications, but if pushed, how would you describe "Ultimate Absolute Reality"?
"Nothing arising and nothing setting"?
05 Dec 10
Originally posted by black beetletis quite interesting, I especially like the part about inner peacefulness, for to be sure, the waters must be calm so that the reflection can be clearly perceived, when there is turbulence, the waters are disturbed and the reflection distorted. 🙂
Zen (Chinese: chan, S.: Dhyana, Pali: jhana) is understood at three levels: at the highest level it means “Ultimate Absolute Reality that stands above all the Names”; at the middle level it is the satori (direct understanding of the essence of the Highest Zen); at the lowest level is “meditation”.
There are five main categories of Zen:
1. Zen of Zen B ...[text shortened]... destroy all the seeds of his karma and, thus, to achieve his nibbana and become an Immovable
😵
06 Dec 10
Originally posted by karoly aczelSome scholars recognize more than 17 types of Zen;
God damn! So many different types of Zen.
I have no problems with your qualifications, but if pushed, how would you describe "Ultimate Absolute Reality"?
"Nothing arising and nothing setting"?
Words are empty
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