Never doubt the Word of God!!! - email

Originally posted by frogstomp
So God created a hole just so He could feel important by filling it?

That hole works a bit like a vacuum cleaner, doesn't it? It filters out things like socks and only lets in God. I don't know, I wouldn't feel important if I were sucked up by a vacuum cleaner.

Originally posted by frogstomp
If you had a life you wouldn't need to be so vacuous.

I have a life. Enough of one to not have to get my kicks off of belittling others and trashing their religion. You sound like you’re still searching for lasting happiness yourself.

Originally posted by The Chess Express
I don’t think that threatening people with God’s divine retribution is likely to convert too many people. Take a look at some of the responses in this thread. Perhaps God’s unconditional love for us all would be a better approach. Just a thought…

Yes you are right. I just thought that I wanted to share this email I received. It was quite interresting for me.

Originally posted by dj2becker
Job 42:10 "And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before. 12 So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning..."

Job 1
9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

12 The LORD said to Satan, "Very well, then, everything he has is in your hands, but on the man himself do not lay a finger."
Then Satan went out from the presence of the LORD.

13 One day when Job's sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, 14 a messenger came to Job and said, "The oxen were plowing and the donkeys were grazing nearby, 15 and the Sabeans attacked and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"

16 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, "The fire of God fell from the sky and burned up the sheep and the servants, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"

17 While he was still speaking, another messenger came and said, "The Chaldeans formed three raiding parties and swept down on your camels and carried them off. They put the servants to the sword, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"

18 While he was still speaking, yet another messenger came and said, "Your sons and daughters were feasting and drinking wine at the oldest brother's house, 19 when suddenly a mighty wind swept in from the desert and struck the four corners of the house. It collapsed on them and they are dead, and I am the only one who has escaped to tell you!"

20 At this, Job got up and tore his robe and shaved his head. Then he fell to the ground in worship 21 and said:
"Naked I came from my mother's womb,
and naked I will depart. [c]
The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away;
may the name of the LORD be praised."

22 In all this, Job did not sin by charging God with wrongdoing.
------------------------------------------------------
There you have it. A silly pissing contest between God and Satan results in the deaths of many innocent people. Their only 'crime' was associating with a petty and cruel god. As if that wasn't enough, the book has the nerve to claim that god could not be held liable for the deaths, even though he specifically permitted them to happen, and apparently helped with the killing (fire from heaven).

To focus on the (somewhat) happy ending is to miss the point of the book: God feels no obligation to explain his ethically wrong actions, and nobody can make him.

Originally posted by dj2becker
[b]That's rubbish...

You seem to have made up your mind already. Anything else I say would probably merit the same response from you.

I think the reason is that you are looking at everything from a naturalistic point of view, and thus your eyes are veiled to the spiritual truths of God and His Word.

However, if you are earnest in your seekin ...[text shortened]... Word to you.

I can promise you that if you seek God with all your heart you will find Him.[/b]

I haven't made up my mind about anything. You however, are fully entrenched in the made your mind up camp, sitting down and enjoying a nice infusion of bromide tea for the brain.

Give me just 1 reason, just 1, why a natural being should disregard his very makeup and pretend there's some other state of being than that which he is built from. Your god lies beyond your ability to conceive him, sense him, touch him, or know anything about him; he is the supernatural, you are the natural: and yet you insist on forgoing your intrinsic nature and instead unashamedly accepting him.

I don't want to read the bible again, I'm interested in your actual experiences, your natural description of the supposed filling by god. What were your sins, tell me of your life, tell me what changed, how it changed, when and over what period. I want to hear your real experience, not your story book vagueries.

And you can promise me no such thing. In your eyes god is not a presuppositional inference, but it is plainly clear that to seek god with your whole heart is to presuppose his existence.

Originally posted by dj2becker
God did not plan or execute the murders. I hope you see the difference. We as humans cannot see into the future and thus cannot make a sound evaluation of the situation at a specific time. We are also not able to understand God's ways and his thoughts and thus we are but able to cling to his promise that everything works together for the good for those tha ...[text shortened]... to look back at situations and see God's divine hand in it which has always been for my good.

" All that it takes for evil to triumph, is for a few good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke, 1795

I think the same can easily be said of god. If I stood by and watched a woman be brutally raped and murdered, would you not think less of me?

God can go swing for all I care

*prepares to choke on vomit, or be shot 6 times*

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Job 1
9 "Does Job fear God for nothing?" Satan replied. 10 "Have you not put a hedge around him and his household and everything he has? You have blessed the work of his hands, so that his flocks and herds are spread throughout the land. 11 But stretch out your hand and strike everything he has, and he will surely curse you to your face."

12 ...[text shortened]... o obligation to explain his ethically wrong actions, and nobody can make him.

There you have it. A silly pissing contest between God and Satan results in the deaths of many innocent people. Their only 'crime' was associating with a petty and cruel god. As if that wasn't enough, the book has the nerve to claim that god could not be held liable for the deaths, even though he specifically permitted them to happen, and apparently helped with the killing (fire from heaven).

You’re missing the point. Millions of people die everyday, some tragically, some peacefully, some suffer and some don’t. This is nothing new. So what does Job tells us in regards to this? Job simply tells us that God allows people to die. So what? Try to look at it from God’s perspective. On the one hand our bodies are not made to exist forever here on Earth, on the other God is in charge of where a person’s soul goes. Who are you to say that Job’s family and servants are not better off? How does a few years here on earth compare to eternity? Why do you consider passing from earth to the after world to be so bad?

The scripture tells us that we suffer because of our sins, so maybe those people deserved it. How do you know?

To focus on the (somewhat) happy ending is to miss the point of the book: God feels no obligation to explain his ethically wrong actions, and nobody can make him.

There is nothing ethically wrong with God bringing somebody back to him. If a human kills another then in most cases it’s wrong because it cuts the victim’s time here on earth short. If God takes a soul then it is not wrong because it is God who gives us the time here on earth. This is hard for grieving parents to understand, but it’s just the reality that everybody is faced with at one point or another. Job probably knew this. This earthly existence is not everything that there is, and if it is then the scriptures are meaningless anyway. So why let the story of Job bother you when there is plenty of good to be gained from it?

Originally posted by The Chess Express
here you have it. A silly pissing contest between God and Satan results in the deaths of many innocent people. Their only 'crime' was associating with a petty and cruel god. As if that wasn't enough, the book has the nerve to claim that god could not be held liable for the deaths, even though he specifically permitted them to happen, and appare ay. So why let the story of Job bother you when there is plenty of good to be gained from it?

Please re-read the quoted passage. God's doing more than just allowing people to die. Fire from heaven (i.e., from God and not Satan) killed a bunch of servants and sheep.

I have a problem accepting a god who insists that human beings regard each other's lives as sacred, yet snuffs out human life at whim just to win a bet with the devil. You can't have it both ways. Either life is sacred and worth protecting, or it isn't.

"...maybe those people deserved it" -- Job didn't; he was declared blameless. I doubt that Job's family and servants committed any acts worthy of death. Usually the bible is all too happy to point those out as justification of god's wrath. In this case, why imagine other reasons for their death when the real reason is given quite explicitely in Job 1?

The story of Job bothered me when I was still a believer; now, it just reads like poorly written mythology. Time after time, the bible shows that the actions of an alleged 'morally perfect' god are some of the most immoral committed in its pages.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem

The story of Job bothered me when I was still a believer; now, it just reads like poorly written mythology. Time after time, the bible shows that the actions of an alleged 'morally perfect' god are some of the most immoral committed in its pages.
Perhaps the confusion comes from your knowledge of good and evil.

Originally posted by Starrman
I haven't made up my mind about anything. You however, are fully entrenched in the made your mind up camp, sitting down and enjoying a nice infusion of bromide tea for the brain.

Give me just 1 reason, just 1, why a natural being should disregard his very makeup and pretend there's some other state of being than that which he is built from. Your god li ...[text shortened]... t it is plainly clear that to seek god with your whole heart is to presuppose his existence.

I haven't made up my mind about anything.

You can't be serious.

I don't want to read the bible again...

Hey, I thought...

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]The story of Job bothered me when I was still a believer; now, it just reads like poorly written mythology. Time after time, the bible shows that the actions of an alleged 'morally perfect' god are some of the most immoral committed in its pages.
Perhaps the confusion comes from your knowledge of good and evil.[/b]

If we're not supposed to know good and evil, then why do we have the bible? Couldn't god have killed adam and eve and just started over? After all, death is no biggie...just a transition.

Originally posted by frogstomp
So God created a hole just so He could feel important by filling it?

Well, these Christians finally have more proof for the existence of God, as they did say God created man in his own image...

...and how many of us don't like to have holes to fill?! 😵

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
If we're not supposed to know good and evil, then why do we have the bible? Couldn't god have killed adam and eve and just started over? After all, death is no biggie...just a transition.

So do you think the continuous chain of repeatedly creating Adam and Eve and then killing them would have solved the problem of human depravity?

Originally posted by Starrman
I haven't made up my mind about anything. You however, are fully entrenched in the made your mind up camp, sitting down and enjoying a nice infusion of bromide tea for the brain.

Give me just 1 reason, just 1, why a natural being should disregard his very makeup and pretend there's some other state of being than that which he is built from. Your god li ...[text shortened]... t it is plainly clear that to seek god with your whole heart is to presuppose his existence.

Give me just 1 reason, just 1, why a natural being should disregard his very makeup and pretend there's some other state of being than that which he is built from.

Please explain what you mean with 'makeup'.

Your god lies beyond your ability to conceive him, sense him, touch him, or know anything about him; he is the supernatural, you are the natural: and yet you insist on forgoing your intrinsic nature and instead unashamedly accepting him.

How do you know that my God lies beyond my ability to conceive him, sense him, or know anything about him?

It is all the more obvious to me that you have made up your mind on quite a number of things.

I don't want to read the bible again, I'm interested in your actual experiences, your natural description of the supposed filling by god. What were your sins, tell me of your life, tell me what changed, how it changed, when and over what period. I want to hear your real experience, not your story book vagueries.

I hesitate to share things with you that are very precious to me, as you seem to be out to ridicule everything I say.

If you have never cried out to God to reveal Himself to you, then I find it hard to believe that my testimony will be of any value or meaning to you.

And you can promise me no such thing. In your eyes god is not a presuppositional inference, but it is plainly clear that to seek god with your whole heart is to presuppose his existence.

It is not I that promise it but God Himself promises in His word that if you seek Him with all your heart you will find Him. So why don't you just take Him on by His word and you can see for yourself.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Please re-read the quoted passage. God's doing more than just allowing people to die. Fire from heaven (i.e., from God and not Satan) killed a bunch of servants and sheep.

I have a problem accepting a god who insists that human beings regard each other's lives as sacred, yet snuffs out human life at whim just to win a bet with the devil. You can't ...[text shortened]... ged 'morally perfect' god are some of the most immoral committed in its pages.

I doubt that Job's family and servants committed any acts worthy of death.

Why do you think Job made sacrifices to the Lord on behalf of his children?

The story of Job bothered me when I was still a believer; now, it just reads like poorly written mythology. Time after time, the bible shows that the actions of an alleged 'morally perfect' god are some of the most immoral committed in its pages.

Is sinful man's definition of 'morally perfect' the same as God's?