NASA debunks 2012 Doomsday Fears

Originally posted by Rajk999
But the weird part is suggesting that you were once an atheist but now your views are changing as a result of reading these forums. Thats interesting.

I don't deny it. But we all change, don't we? If I'd never changed, then I could write my postings in runes, knowing that they never change, and are still valid a thousands years from now. This is not the case. Things change. No, the label 'atheist' is not a label of my philosophy (any more).

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I know, it's more or less impossible. I give you that.
But it's also impossible for me.

During my time here at RHP, debating religious things, I have changed. I've learned. For me, debating is learning. Not learning to be JWer, not to be dasaist, but picking up things that actually makes sense from the ocean of topics discussed. I usually say that the he definition of 'atheist' is at the very end of a spectrum. I'm not there (anymore).

Nope. theist and atheist are exhaustive and exclusive labels. you are one or the other.

This doesn't mean you are pinning yourself down to some fixed position, or are closing
your mind, and you can swing from one to another, but at any one time you are either
one or the other.

If you can't work out if you have a belief in god then you don't have one, and are an atheist.
Once you can work out if you have a belief in god or not then if you do have a belief you are
then a theist, if you don't then you are an atheist.


You can also be an agnostic (as both a theist or an atheist) as agnostic goes to knowledge
not belief.

Having an open mind, and wanting to learn from debating is admirable, and something there
should be more of, and you don't have to declare your position if you are uncertain which way
you will end up going, or if you simply want to avoid the prejudice that comes with certain labels.

However you are either (by definition) an atheist or theist, there is no middle ground.
Although there is a spectrum of how certain you are about either position they meet in the middle,
a simple line that you can be on one side of or the other.


EDIT: my profile has more on this and has links to websites that also cover this if you are interested.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Nope. theist and atheist are exhaustive and exclusive labels. you are one or the other.

This doesn't mean you are pinning yourself down to some fixed position, or are closing
your mind, and you can swing from one to another, but at any one time you are either
one or the other.

If you can't work out if you have a belief in god then you don't hav ...[text shortened]... file has more on this and has links to websites that also cover this if you are interested.

Sorry. I don't agree.

You say that those who are not 100% religious (according to whom?) are atheists. And those not being 100% atheist (again, according to whom?) are theists. No, I don't like this idea.

I am what I am.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Sorry. I don't agree.

You say that those who are not 100% religious (according to whom?) are atheists. And those not being 100% atheist (again, according to whom?) are theists. No, I don't like this idea.

I am what I am.

talking about percentages is misleading.

you either believe something is true or you don't.

if you sorta think well maybe it might be possible but haven't really made up your mind,
then you don't believe that it's true.
You're open minded about it, but you don't have an actual firm belief that it's true.

In the case of belief in god the division is between those that do have a belief (theists)
and those that don't (atheists).

As I say you don't have to use the labels, but you ARE one or the other, they are defined that way.
It's like something being true or false, it's one or the other, there is nothing else.

Originally posted by googlefudge
talking about percentages is misleading.

you either believe something is true or you don't.

if you sorta think well maybe it might be possible but haven't really made up your mind,
then you don't believe that it's true.
You're open minded about it, but you don't have an actual firm belief that it's true.

In the case of belief in god the divis ...[text shortened]... t's like something being true or false, it's one or the other, there is nothing else.

"you either believe something is true or you don't"

It's an oversimplification. I don't think you believe that yourself. You can always be more, or less, sure about something, anything. You change with time. As you grow older, as you go wiser, as you change friends, work, neighbourhood, etc.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
"you either believe something is true or you don't"

It's an oversimplification. I don't think you believe that yourself. You can always be more, or less, sure about something, anything. You change with time. As you grow older, as you go wiser, as you change friends, work, neighbourhood, etc.

of course you can indeed change how much you think something is true.

But there is a line in the sand on one side of which you have a belief that something is true
(however strongly) and on the other you don't.

That is the dividing line between theism and atheism.

EDIT: you seem to be taking the extreme position of either end of the spectrum and saying
I am not either of these so I must be something else, where as I am talking about the bit in
the middle where they both meet.

Originally posted by googlefudge
of course you can indeed change how much you think something is true.

But there is a line in the sand on one side of which you have a belief that something is true (however strongly) and on the other you don't.

That is the dividing line between theism and atheism.

That's your opinion. That's not mine.

If you feel better with giving me a label, please, do so. I'm not interested what label you give me, it doesn't change me, not at all.

Exodus 3:13 will be my last word in this debate.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
That's your opinion. That's not mine.

If you feel better with giving me a label, please, do so. I'm not interested what label you give me, it doesn't change me, not at all.

Exodus 3:13 will be my last word in this debate.

Ok well as I said, I am not giving you the label, I am simply stating what the definitions for the
two labels we are discussing are, and that you are one or the other based on these criterion.

Which of the two you are, and whether you chose to use the label's or not is up to you.

But by definition, you are one or the other, everyone is.



Exodus 3:13 KJV
"And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them,
The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name?
what shall I say unto them?"

I am not sure I understand the relevance of your last word.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Nope. theist and atheist are exhaustive and exclusive labels. you are one or the other.

This doesn't mean you are pinning yourself down to some fixed position, or are closing
your mind, and you can swing from one to another, but at any one time you are either
one or the other.

If you can't work out if you have a belief in god then you don't hav ...[text shortened]... file has more on this and has links to websites that also cover this if you are interested.

Your definitions may be okay for you in theory. But in reality you are
either for Christ or against Him; there is no neutral position. You
must soon make up your mind. You are either on the side of Christ
or by default you will be on the side of Satan.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Ok well as I said, I am not giving you the label, I am simply stating what the definitions for the
two labels we are discussing are, and that you are one or the other based on these criterion.

Which of the two you are, and whether you chose to use the label's or not is up to you.

But by definition, you are one or the other, everyone is.



Ex
what shall I say unto them?"

I am not sure I understand the relevance of your last word.

In my bible I can find the famous words "I am who I am", which fits very well on me in this discussion.

"I am who I am".

Edit: Exodus 3:14 would be better, right? Sorry for my typo. What does your bible say?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
In my bible I can find the famous words "I am who I am", which fits very well on me in this discussion.

"I am who I am".

I don't dispute that you are who you are.
However this has no bearing on whether or not you are a theist or an atheist.

Whoever you are, and whatever you are, you are either an atheist or a theist.
Which, is entirely up to you.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Your definitions may be okay for you in theory. But in reality you are
either for Christ or against Him; there is no neutral position. You
must soon make up your mind. You are either on the side of Christ
or by default you will be on the side of Satan.

Atheist and theist are general terms that encompass the belief or not in any and all religions.

As an atheist I neither believe in god, JC or satan. They are all fairy tale fictions.

And the nonsense of having to make up my mind before your ridiculous judgement day is just that, nonsense.

However, while your gods and demons are fictions I ignore, I am certainly against you and your crazy destructive religion.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
In my bible I can find the famous words "I am who I am", which fits very well on me in this discussion.

"I am who I am".

Edit: Exodus 3:14 would be better, right? Sorry for my typo. What does your bible say?

Exodus 3:14

King James Version (KJV)

14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you.


EDIT: To be clear I generally use the KJV in the internet. I did have a bible once but now have no idea where it is. I reference the internet now if I need to quote it.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Atheist and theist are general terms that encompass the belief or not in any and all religions.

As an atheist I neither believe in god, JC or satan. They are all fairy tale fictions.

And the nonsense of having to make up my mind before your ridiculous judgement day is just that, nonsense.

However, while your gods and demons are fictions I ignore, I am certainly against you and your crazy destructive religion.

We are living in the real word. Your theories mean nothing. If you do
not chose Christ then by default you have chosen Satan as your god.

Originally posted by RJHinds
We are living in the real word. Your theories mean nothing. If you do
not chose Christ then by default you have chosen Satan as your god.

No I am living in the real world where neither of those imaginary boogie men exist.

And I am not talking about theories (you really need to learn what that word means seriously)
I am talking about meanings of words. Labels specifically.
Which has nothing to do with the validity of either position.

Also, threatening me with hell, or any of your fantasies is Utterly pointless, unless you can
prove they actually exist.
So unless you can do that, really don't bother because it's an utter waste of your time.

I am more than happy to discuss the ins and outs of belief and religion, but threatening me with
imaginary torment is pointless.

Because I DO live in the real world, it's you that lives in the imaginary one.