20 May 09
Originally posted by robbie carrobieThe killing of 18,000 men is 'community spirit', and that's the 'Word of God'??
will i tell the people what happened noobster, how justice was executed because of this outrage, how, when the other tribes of Isreal heard of this contempt for life and natural hospitality, they drew up in battle formation and fought a war against their own brothers, in which the perpetrators of the horrific act were wiped out, to the tune of 18,000 ...[text shortened]... if you are going to try to besmear the reputation of the Word of God, you read the full story 🙂
You're even more moronic than i though you were already.
20 May 09
Originally posted by TerrierJackabsolute and complete and utter garbage, you have no concept, absolutely no concept of what the Bible portrays, you have been found wanting in the past, and yet you are here pontificating your ill conceived prejudice and lack of knowledge, you also feel your bum to make sure you are in your senses, perhaps you too would like to tell the people what happened to the perpetrators, ?
Out the many passages in the bible that demonstrate a perverse hatred of the female that is the one that has always stunned me. This guy is praised because he offers his daughter and then eventually gives up the woman that he loves out of some sickening sense of honor to protect a stranger. What more could you do to debase and devalue women? Call the ...[text shortened]... how terrifying it would be for any of these people to have control over your female loved ones.
20 May 09
Originally posted by Proper Knoblook noobster, you have not read the account, that is obvious, otherwise you would not be spouting your nonsense, it was because they had a community responsibility to look after travelers etc, what is it about that you do not understand, 'community spirit', what are you talking about? are you sure you felt your bum?if you are not going to read the passage, do not waste my time with lies, half baked conceptions and outright nonsense.
The killing of 18,000 men is 'community spirit', and that's the 'Word of God'??
You're even more moronic than i though you were already.
21 May 09
Originally posted by utherpendragonPerhaps the question should be: 'In today's age, which is more stupid, to believe in the Qur'an or to believe in the Bible?' Throw in the Book of Mormon as well.
is the Koran superior to the Bible and if so,why? Is the Bible superior and if so,why? Are they equal? Why?
For what it's worth, it appears to me that the Qur'an is a confused mish-mash of edicts and opinions with no logical order. At least the Bible is some kind of an attempt at an historical account.
But, let's face it, any book regarded as the 'truth' but containing such nonsense as 'giant humans roaming the Earth', 'survival for several days inside a fish's intestines' and 'invisible spirits living along side humans and shooting stars killing those spirits', well, in my opinion, just laugh at those books.
21 May 09
Originally posted by jaywillHow about the Hadith?
I agree that some clarification is in order. Before such was made I simply drew some contrasts between the two books.
If anyone wants to know about Islam, hey, the Quran is what you need. There is no better book in the world on Islam than the Quran.
If that is what you want, to know all about Islam, the Quran is the best book in the world on that subject.
21 May 09
Originally posted by znshoI am in the process of studying Islam. And it is interesting to me that many of the blanks about matters in the Quran are filled in onlyby tradition or the Hadiths.
How about the Hadith?
Is that a fair statement ?
For instance there are no much details about what happens at death in the Quran. But there are a lot of varied details in the traditions and accompanying writings, down to minute discriptions.
Seems curious to me at this point.
21 May 09
Originally posted by jaywillIsn't it obvious? The hadiths came later to try and justify the crap in the Qur'an.
I am in the process of studying Islam. And it is interesting to me that many of the blanks about matters in the Quran are filled in onlyby tradition or the Hadiths.
Is that a fair statement ?
For instance there are no much details about what happens at death in the Quran. But there are a lot of varied details in the traditions and accompanying writings, down to minute discriptions.
Seems curious to me at this point.
Prepare yourself for a lot of trouble concerning the Hadiths and prepare yourself for ludicrous excuses given by Muslims for the stupidity of some of the Hadiths. The usual one is 'only a Muslim scholar can decide the true meaning of a Hadith and whether or not it is authentic'. Can the rest of us not read?!!!
In general, most Muslims consider the Bukhari Hadiths as being authentic. Even then, a Bukhari Hadith shown to be utter tosh is regarded as (usually) 'well, it can't be a genuine one then'. Amazingly, though, I have come across Muslims who really believe some of these stupid Hadiths as being true and the word of Allah (via Gabriel).
Which religion wins in the stupidity stakes? Latter Day Saints or Islam? Please get back to me after your studies.
21 May 09
Originally posted by jaywillre: Death in Islam
I am in the process of studying Islam. And it is interesting to me that many of the blanks about matters in the Quran are filled in onlyby tradition or the Hadiths.
Is that a fair statement ?
For instance there are no much details about what happens at death in the Quran. But there are a lot of varied details in the traditions and accompanying writings, down to minute discriptions.
Seems curious to me at this point.
I believe that Muslims think when we die we lose our consciousness. Sometime in the future, Allah is going to resurrect all of us (including our precise fingerprints and conciousness) and we face the court and sentences. Depending on our lives (what we did good, what we did bad), quite a lot of us are going to hell fire, but not necessarily for eternity. Many will eventually enter paradise, even if we have been baddies sometimes. The sentence also does not depend upon if a person is (was) Muslim or not but if you have been made aware of Islam and reject it, it does not bode well (naughty, naughty, naughty).
Even those sentenced to eternal fire might have a get out clause - others in paradise can petition Allah on behalf of loved ones suffering hell-fire.
21 May 09
Originally posted by znshoMy point is that the details are not much in the Quran. And since we are talking about the book of the Quran vs the Bible, I make the point.
re: Death in Islam
I believe that Muslims think when we die we lose our consciousness. Sometime in the future, Allah is going to resurrect all of us (including our precise fingerprints and conciousness) and we face the court and sentences. Depending on our lives (what we did good, what we did bad), quite a lot of us are going to hell fire, but not necessari ...[text shortened]... out clause - others in paradise can petition Allah on behalf of loved ones suffering hell-fire.
There are varied details about important themes (I would think for a major world faith) which are not revealed in the book which claims to be a revelation.
The details are to be found elsewhere. For what it is worth, that I see, as a major difference between the Bible and the Quran.
The Hadiths fill in the blanks on many things that the Quran is silent on. And they do not carry the same level of authority as the Quran (I believe).
This is a major difference between the Quran and its traditions and the Bible.
I am opened to a challenge on that concept. Am I wrong ?
21 May 09
I guess I learned a valuable lesson from this debate. The "truth" is nothing than an individualist point of view, which people get inspired to find through the Bible, Qu'ran, and other books.
To tell the truth, all your arguments make plausible the possibility that even a comic book can hold the truth, should we choose to see it that way.
So I guess the truth is inside us instead of in some teaching. Both books seem like guides to help us find that "inner truth".
What I'm trying to say is that I think they are both equally useful and therefore equally valuable. refute if you want, but I haven't seen any logical arguments against this on this debate.
What do you guys think of this? Feedback is always welcome.
21 May 09
Originally posted by jaywillI agree. And, that is, to me, is very strong evidence that a human wrote the Qur'an. The Hadiths were afterthoughts when serious faults / lack of clarity about the Qur'an were pointed out.
My point is that the details are not much in the Quran. And since we are talking about the book of the Quran vs the Bible, I make the point.
There are varied details about important themes (I would think for a major world faith) which are [b]not revealed in the book which claims to be a revelation.
The details are to be found elsewhere. F ...[text shortened]... and its traditions and the Bible.
I am opened to a challenge on that concept. Am I wrong ?[/b]
Devout Muslims, who believe the Qur'an to be the PERFECT words of Allah must, at the same time, accept that Allah was not very clear the first time around and later came along saying 'ah, well, what I meant was.....'
It is ridiculous.