25 Mar 09
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonIt doesn't but if all I ever said was the horse proves your wrong, and
No.
In what way does a ‘horse’ an example of why I am wrong? 😛
do not spell out why you'd be in the same boat I'm in with your
examples. I have given you another reason why your two examples
may not be what you suggest they are.
Kelly
25 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton"Precisely! Questions answered.
[b]…You have not answered my questions
..…
Yes I have.
….now you give me two
examples of "PROOF" of your belief that evolution works the way
you claim it does.
.…
Precisely! Questions answered.
Which questions have I failed to answer?
….Neither time have you done anything other than
make the claim, that is proof. ations that add NEW variants to the population that didn't exist in the population before.
Which questions have I failed to answer? "
[/b] I asked you to show me why your two examples were proof that
your point was valid. You need to show me how design is taking
place instead of just a filtering process.
Kelly
25 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Andrew Hamilton"Of course you don't accept ANY such proof -you don’t accept science nor evidence nor logic. "
[b]…You have not answered my questions
..…
Yes I have.
….now you give me two
examples of "PROOF" of your belief that evolution works the way
you claim it does.
.…
Precisely! Questions answered.
Which questions have I failed to answer?
….Neither time have you done anything other than
make the claim, that is proof. ations that add NEW variants to the population that didn't exist in the population before.
[/b]I accept proof, you have not presented any, your word alone is not
enough as I have pointed out to you before., I do accept science,
and logic as well; however, saying that does not mean I have to
accept your views on what is sound science or logic.
Kelly
25 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by Andrew HamiltonSo natural selection didn’t design drug-resistant metabolism in drag-resistant bacteria?
[b]….I said it again, because you are not displayed how your point is true,
you have NOT brought up anything to explain how your point is proven.
..…(my emphasis)
But I just did prove it and twice! Reminder for the THIRD time:
….“…
So natural selection didn’t design drug-resistant metabolism in drag-resistant bacteria? 😛
And you would really be “discuss this disagreement in greater detail” to is yourself -good luck.
And natural selection didn’t design DDT-resistant metabolism in DDT-resistant mosquitoes?
.…
"The two examples above are examples of observable proof of evolution (which is merely natural selection working in conjunction with mutations) redesigning metabolism -how is this not proof that evolution causing changes in the design of living things? -Answer -it IS proof and you know it. "
[/b]As I said, you telling me these are proofs is not enough, walk me
through this, show my why you believe this to be true! I have asked
you several times now to do that, your word telling me these examples
are proof is just your word telling me your examples are proof nothing
more.
How did this redesign take place? What process did it, how did it look
before and after what were the steps it took? If all y ou have are the
results of some didn't die and later none did, my telling you those
small numbers that lived could have always lived, and their off
spring would have just carried on as blue eye people have blue eyed
children, nothing being redesigned here if that is all it is.
Kelly
25 Mar 09
Here are some proofs of evolution
1- Darwin observed a family of species of birds (whose name I don't recall) and observed that in that family there were different species in diferent places, however some aspects were the same, which indicates a similar origins
2- he also used Charles Lyell's theory of uniformitarism, I suppose everyone knows what that is
2- natural seleccion happens due to competition between individuals cohabiting the same area
3-There are fossils of organisms that have gone extinct, however some fossils present cracteristics compromised between two species, creating filogenetic series (map of evolution)
4-Very different animals have similar organs, which indicates they have originated from the same specie. Also vestigial organs (like the pelvis in the whale) proof
5-animals living in the same environment tend to adapt in a similar way, strenghtening the same muscles (genetically) for example.
6-all organisms are constituted by cells
7-DNA studies show that the more allike 2 species are, more their DNA is the same.
8-emprios pass through fases that retrace their evolution
25 Mar 09
In a letter to be auctioned off this week, Albert Einstein called believing in God a "childish superstition." He wrote:
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish"
that pretty much sums it up
25 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by orion25Here are some proofs of evolution
Here are some proofs of evolution
1- Darwin observed a family of species of birds (whose name I don't recall) and observed that in that family there were different species in diferent places, however some aspects were the same, which indicates a similar origins
2- he also used Charles Lyell's theory of uniformitarism, I suppose everyone knows what that ...[text shortened]... are, more their DNA is the same.
8-emprios pass through fases that retrace their evolution
1- Darwin observed a family of species of birds (whose name I don't recall) and observed that in that family there were different species in diferent places, however some aspects were the same, which indicates a similar origins
A common design does the same thing you can have different styles of
bridges, but does mean that one bridge came from another through
evolution.
2- he also used Charles Lyell's theory of uniformitarism, I suppose everyone knows what that is
Spell it out do not assume
2- natural seleccion happens due to competition between individuals cohabiting the same area
Except we see balance in nature not a war between species.
3-There are fossils of organisms that have gone extinct, however some fossils present cracteristics compromised between two species, creating filogenetic series (map of evolution)
We have varieties living today with different and common
characteristics that does not mean one came from another, the only
thing the fossil record really shows us are fossils, what you claim or
declare that means is really between your ears. You can be right, you
can be wrong, but it is not necessarily factual to say your map of
evolution is accurate.
4-Very different animals have similar organs, which indicates they have originated from the same specie. Also vestigial organs (like the pelvis in the whale) proof
Again, today we have a variety of creatures with the same organs, and
some times there are varieties of same type like eyes, for me this
goes against a common ancestor verses proves one really existed.
5-animals living in the same environment tend to adapt in a similar way, strenghtening the same muscles (genetically) for example.
Yea, a good design will do that too.
6-all organisms are constituted by cells
Again, a good design it works for all life why change it up?
7-DNA studies show that the more allike 2 species are, more their DNA is the same.
Again, a good design, same results
8-emprios pass through fases that retrace their evolution
No idea what you talking about here.
25 Mar 09
Originally posted by orion25I wonder what he is thinking now?
In a letter to be auctioned off this week, Albert Einstein called believing in God a "childish superstition." He wrote:
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weaknesses, the Bible a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish"
that pretty much sums it up
Kelly
25 Mar 09
yeah sorry about that dude, English isn't my best language
anyway, you're refuting everything I said assuming you are right, you are starting from your ideia that God created everything and therefore nothing I said could be true.
Actually I totaly agree with you, If god does exist nothing I said is true, however you can't refute something based on a conclusion we are trying to find
that would be the same as to say:
The spaggeti monster is god
if someone said that spaggeti suffered evolution I would refute quoting my conclusion (god is a static thing and therefore the spaggetti monster didn't suffer evolution)
hope you get what I'm saying
25 Mar 09
And since you're so smart solve this little riddle for me will you?
"If God is willing to prevent evil, but is not able to
Then He is not omnipotent.
If He is able, but not willing
Then He is malevolent.
If He is both able and willing
Then whence cometh evil?
If He is neither able nor willing
Then why call Him God?"
-Epicurus
25 Mar 09
Originally posted by KellyJayExcept that Darwins theory makes testable predictions. The finches that he studies have been studied since then and observed to evolve since then exactly as his theory predicts.
A common design does the same thing you can have different styles of
bridges, but does mean that one bridge came from another through
evolution.
25 Mar 09
Originally posted by KellyJay…It doesn't but if all I ever said was the horse proves your wrong, and
It doesn't but if all I ever said was the horse proves your wrong, and
do not spell out why you'd be in the same boat I'm in with your
examples. I have given you another reason why your two examples
may not be what you suggest they are.
Kelly
do not spell out why you'd be in the SAME BOAT I'm in with your
examples.
..… (my emphasis)
Here we go again -the usual tactic of pretending you don’t know what it self-evident to attempt to avoid the argument;
Houses have NOT been directly observed to undergo resent changes via evolution in modern times.
Mosquitoes and bacteria HAVE been directly observed to undergo resent changes via evolution in modern times -that’s why they are not in the “same boat” as you said -but you already knew this.
25 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by KellyJay….As I said, you telling me these are proofs is not enough, WALK me
So natural selection didn’t design drug-resistant metabolism in drag-resistant bacteria?
And natural selection didn’t design DDT-resistant metabolism in DDT-resistant mosquitoes?
.…
"The two examples above are examples of observable proof of evolution (which is merely natural selection working in conjunction with mutations) redesigning metabol e people have blue eyed
children, nothing being redesigned here if that is all it is.
Kelly
through this, show my why you believe this to be true!
..…
Please stop insulting our intelligence by pretending what is self-evident isn’t so.
Ok -so I will “WALK you through this”; 😛
I have basically already said this again and again using different words from here but;
AN OBSERVED EXAMPLE OF EVOLUTION MAKING CHANGES IN A SPECIES OF LIVING THING IS PROOF THAT EVOLUTION CAN MAKE CHANGES IN A SPECIES OF LIVING THING.
Which part of that sentence do you pretend to not understand?
Are you just pretending to not understand the extremely simple logic?
How is an observed example of evolution making a change in a species of living thing NOT proof that evolution can make changes in a species of living thing? 😛 -explain….
Or are you now going to pretend that evolution didn’t design DDT-resistant metabolism in DDT-resistant mosquitoes? 😛 -if so, how did they develop resistance?
…How did this redesign take place? What process did it,
..… (my emphasis)
Evolution.
….how did it look before and after
..…
Before they were not resistant; after they were.
…what were the steps it took?
..…
First a mutation for resistance, then natural selection selected it. -you already know all this.
Now I have answered all your questions YET AGAIN -will you answer mine? -answer, no. You will never answer my questions because you have no answers to my questions because you have lost the argument and you know it. The continual refusal to answer my questions (and other people’s questions) will just confirm this.
26 Mar 09
3 edits
Originally posted by orion25Yep, totally get it and agree with you. I cannot prove God, I honestly
yeah sorry about that dude, English isn't my best language
anyway, you're refuting everything I said assuming you are right, you are starting from your ideia that God created everything and therefore nothing I said could be true.
Actually I totaly agree with you, If god does exist nothing I said is true, however you can't refute something based on a co ...[text shortened]... nd therefore the spaggetti monster didn't suffer evolution)
hope you get what I'm saying
feel I do not have to as well. I believe it is up to God to reveal
Himself to all of us, because the Scripture says all of us will be without
excuse when we stand before God. So that battle of proving God is
real is on Him not so much me, I have to love you and others, which
can be a pain sometimes. 🙂 Don't worry about your English with me I
think it is pety to pick on people for spelling and getting a word wrong
now and then, mainly because I mispell and will from time to time
leave a word out thinking I typed it or add one for no good reason.
🙁 So in the interest of self interest I keep my complaints down to
none when it comes to that stuff. 🙂
Kelly
26 Mar 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadI can look at a pattern within a process see it unfold and it can be
Except that Darwins theory makes testable predictions. The finches that he studies have been studied since then and observed to evolve since then exactly as his theory predicts.
predictable, and it can be designed! Your predictions have more to
do with the patterns involved than mechanisms you credit for
patterns. If that is all you got, you got nothing.
Kelly