27 Aug 17
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled them.”
What did Jesus mean? Does God enable all? If so this would be a meaningless statement. Evidently God enables some to believe and does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
30 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarI don't claim to have the answer here, but I've heard it said that faith is a gift, some have it, others don't. Maybe that's what scripture was trying to get across.
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father ...[text shortened]... d does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
Originally posted by @eladarSo, what if God has chosen some to believe and others not?
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father ...[text shortened]... d does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
Is that what you're driving at? If so, then one may well ask is that fair?
Consider verse 64b. "For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."
The question goes well beyond whether or not God has chosen some to be saved and others lost since God knew from before the beginning who would believe and who would not.
The passage in question, based on the whole context, will confound the unbeliever to no end. It is God's will and desire that all men be saved. Nevertheless many will reject God's salvation, which is offered to all without exception.
The idea that God selected some to be lost is evil to the core. It's a lie. Nothing could be further from the truth.
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30 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarTroll much.
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father ...[text shortened]... d does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
30 Aug 17
Originally posted by @josephwSo if what I am saying is true, then you judge God to be evil.
So, what [b]if God has chosen some to believe and others not?
Is that what you're driving at? If so, then one may well ask is that fair?
Consider verse 64b. "For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him."
The question goes well beyond whether or not God has chosen some to be saved and others lost ...[text shortened]... lected some to be lost is evil to the core. It's a lie. Nothing could be further from the truth.[/b]
30 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarYes, what Jesus said was meaningless cuz he was a racist, a sexist, want's everyone to go to hell, and....um....I forget all the other things you called him.
The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you—they are full of the Spirit[e] and life. 64 Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and who would betray him. 65 He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father ...[text shortened]... d does not enable others. So if a person does not believe it is quite likely to be God's choice.
Can you remind me again?
31 Aug 17
Originally posted by @whodeySexist and racist...
Yes, what Jesus said was meaningless cuz he was a racist, a sexist, want's everyone to go to hell, and....um....I forget all the other things you called him.
Can you remind me again?
Tell me are those terms found in the Bible or are those terms thrown around in society?
31 Aug 17
Originally posted by @eladarIs what you're saying true? What are you saying anyway? That God chose some to be lost? To die and go to hell?
So if what I am saying is true, then you judge God to be evil.
If that's what you're saying, then it is you that is portraying God as evil.
Prove to me, from the scriptures, that God chose some to be lost.
Originally posted by @josephwProve to you? I can only show you where to read. If you are blind, it will be useless.
Is what you're saying true? What are you saying anyway? That God chose some to be lost? To die and go to hell?
If that's what you're saying, then it is you that is portraying God as evil.
Prove to me, from the scriptures, that God chose some to be lost.
Try Romans 9.
Of course what I quoted in this thread also points the way.
31 Aug 17
1 edit
Originally posted by @eladarThank God that, unlike you, the world has moved on from a time when women were considered unimportant.
It is true according to the Bible.
Of the 12, how many did Jesus choose that were female?
He chose some who he knew would betray him, but could not come to grips with choosing a female.