Originally posted by Nordlys
He could have done it himself, but decided not to. That's also quite telling.

Oh! Very intresting! I had never thought of that before.

Thanks

Originally posted by Nordlys
He could have done it himself, but decided not to. That's also quite telling.

Nice point. I'd never thought of that... He does ask her to sin no more, so he didn't approve.

Also, the sermon of the mount, in my mind, also excludes such punishments. Turn the other cheek, judge not lest ye be judged, and so on....

Of course, this is my view as an atheist. I don't pretend to teach you anything, LH, just that I've never seen that defended and it doesn't make much sense to me personally.

Originally posted by Nordlys
He could have done it himself, but decided not to. That's also quite telling.

Maybe not; did Jesus ever say he was "without sin"?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Maybe not; did Jesus ever say he was "without sin"?

I don't believe Jesus himself actually claimed to be without sin but we have this from Hebrews:

Hebrews 4:14-15
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Maybe not; did Jesus ever say he was "without sin"?

According to the Bible, he was.

Edit - Corinthians 5:21
"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Edit 2 - The sacrifice would be much less meaningful if he wasn't. Of course, I'm not saying I believe all this.

Originally posted by Palynka
According to the Bible, he was.

Corinthians 5:21
"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Darn! Your verse was even better than mine...what are you, a Baptist?

😉

TheSkipper

Originally posted by TheSkipper
Darn! Your verse was even better than mine...what are you, a Baptist?

😉

TheSkipper

Google can perform miracles! 😉

Originally posted by no1marauder
Maybe not; did Jesus ever say he was "without sin"?

It seems that he didn't, but others did, and it would seem a logical conclusion if you believe that he is godly. However, he said himself: "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God", which could be interpreted as saying that he is not free of sin.

I found an interesting article about this question: http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_jcsi2.htm

Edit: One interesting point of the article is that he did several things which would be considered (or would have been considered at that time) a sin if he had been a mere human.

Originally posted by Palynka
According to the Bible, he was.

Edit - Corinthians 5:21
"God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

Edit 2 - The sacrifice would be much less meaningful if he wasn't. Of course, I'm not saying I believe all this.

On the other other hand, there are these—

NRS Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

NRS Mark 10:18 Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

NRS Luke 18:19 Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

EDIT: Well, Nordlys beat me to it... 🙂

Originally posted by TheSkipper
I don't believe Jesus himself actually claimed to be without sin but we have this from Hebrews:

Hebrews 4:14-15
14 Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

The idea that Jesus was without sin became part of accepted dogma and writings which incorporated that belief were included in the NT. Writings that disputed this were not. However, Jesus himself in the Gospels never claimed this and it's an odd omission given the centrality of this doctrine to the idea of Jesus' sacrifice on the Cross.

Originally posted by Palynka
Google can perform miracles! 😉

But is Google without sin?

Originally posted by vistesd
On the other other hand, there are these—

NRS Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

NRS Mark 10:18 Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

NRS Luke 18:19 Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

EDIT: Well, Nordlys beat me to it... 🙂

Of course, these verses are used to argue for the Trinitarian Doctrine.

Originally posted by vistesd
On the other other hand, there are these—

NRS Matthew 19:17 And he said to him, "Why do you ask me about what is good? There is only one who is good. If you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments."

NRS Mark 10:18 Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

NRS Luke 18:19 Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

EDIT: Well, Nordlys beat me to it... 🙂

Do you see any problem with these verses? I don't

Originally posted by Nordlys
It seems that he didn't, but others did, and it would seem a logical conclusion if you believe that he is godly. However, he said himself: "Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God", which could be interpreted as saying that he is not free of sin.

I found an interesting article about this question: http://www.religioustolerance.o ...[text shortened]... be considered (or would have been considered at that time) a sin if he had been a mere human.

Nordlys, vistesd:

I have to say, that's a bit of a weak case (especially the supposed sins). First it is unclear if he's talking about sin. Matthew's quote is much more logical, as in the follow up the man says has been without sin as Jesus describes it. It would be weird to believe Jesus sinned more than this man.

Originally posted by Nordlys
But is Google without sin?

Only with the extra filters on.