Originally posted by pete3246
I think the op point is that its obvious that some scripture has been misinterpreted and mistranslated. Couldn't God have been more clear? I'm sure some of these errors are made innocently.... an all mighty God could have communicated a bit better.

Although I guess this is another one of those things that go under his thoughts are not our thoughts.

God confounded the languages at one point so man would not understand each
other.
So God must have a purpose in all this that we just don't understand.

Originally posted by RJHinds
Only those that are found guilty by a judge and jury are sentenced to death in
the USA. Those found innocent are let go.

Not anymore. Our government can now assassinate US citizens and detain them indefinitely without trial, simply by claiming they are terrorists. Read up on NDAA - national defense authorization act.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
every time a quote from the bible pops up on here there seem to be several different interpretations of what it means. this has always caused me problems, surly a being intelligent enough to create the universe would also be able to spread its message in a clear way that can not be corrupted or misinterpreted.
do christians think that much of the bible ...[text shortened]... them vague so they can be flexible to fit many societies and their attitude towards killing.

If one honestly looks thru the Bible and ALWAYS test "scripture with scripture" ( not mans ideas or thoughts or doctrines ) one would begin to see a consistant theme and that the Bible does not contradict itself.
This being said, the confusions always arise when we allow mans ideas to enter into our searching of what a scripture or set of verses or a book in the Bible is there for and is saying.
God did not have the Bible written to be a mystery and not understood by ones honestly wanting to know what it says. What would be the purpose of that if it really didn't have the answers or always remained confusing to all?
If one has a personal opinion of what a scripture is saying then he should be able to show proof from the entire Bible that it is in deed fact and supported by the Bible.
If his opinion is NOT supported by the entire Bible but is supported by mans ideas, doctrines, philosophies , etc, then one who is truely looking for the truth of the Bible would need to use wisdom and ask God himself for the truth in the Bible and most importantly be willing to let go of any man made ideas that do not agree with the Bible.

Originally posted by galveston75
If one honestly looks thru the Bible and ALWAYS test "scripture with scripture" ( not mans ideas or thoughts or doctrines ) one would begin to see a consistant theme and that the Bible does not contradict itself.
This being said, the confusions always arise when we allow mans ideas to enter into our searching of what a scripture or set of verses or a b ...[text shortened]... most importantly be willing to let go of any man made ideas that do not agree with the Bible.

You are the closest I have seen here to the point, when you say "...ask God himself for the truth of the Bible...". Kudos for honestly expressing that one has to approach the Bible WITH faith, if the apparent contradictions are to be understood and accepted.

This is not to say that I have such faith.

CS Lewis was direct about this in his book The Problem of Pain. He said, in the preface as I recall, that one must approach his analysis of the problem with faith in hand, or it won't make sense.

Originally posted by JS357
You are the closest I have seen here to the point, when you say "...ask God himself for the truth of the Bible...". Kudos for honestly expressing that one has to approach the Bible WITH faith, if the apparent contradictions are to be understood and accepted.

This is not to say that I have such faith.

CS Lewis was direct about this in his book The Problem ...[text shortened]... hat one must approach his analysis of the problem with faith in hand, or it won't make sense.

Kudos for honestly expressing that one has to approach the Bible WITH faith, if the apparent contradictions are to be understood and accepted.

Actually it's more like "one has to approach the Bible WITH faith, if the [DEMONSTRABLE] contradictions are to be [DENIED] and accepted".

I recall having a discussion with a poster on this forum some time ago regarding a couple of verses in either John or 1 John. After much discussion he conceded that the two verses contradicted each other, yet he maintainted the he believed both of them to be equally true. And so it goes.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]Kudos for honestly expressing that one has to approach the Bible WITH faith, if the apparent contradictions are to be understood and accepted.

Actually it's more like "one has to approach the Bible WITH faith, if the [DEMONSTRABLE] contradictions are to be [DENIED] and accepted".

I recall having a discussion with a poster on this forum some t ...[text shortened]... ch other, yet he maintainted the he believed both of them to be equally true. And so it goes.[/b]

ap·par·ent/əˈparənt/
Adjective:

1. Clearly visible or understood; obvious.
2. Seeming real or true, but not necessarily so.

In the present case, they are clearly contradictions, or seeming contradictions. Take your pick. I am being purposely vague because the intent of my post was not to add myself to the debate. But the outcome is predictable.

Originally posted by JS357
ap·par·ent/əˈparənt/
Adjective:

1. Clearly visible or understood; obvious.
2. Seeming real or true, but not necessarily so.

In the present case, they are clearly contradictions, or seeming contradictions. Take your pick. I am being purposely vague because the intent of my post was not to add myself to the debate. But the outcome is predictable.

Either way, one should approach the Bible with REASON, lest the result be delusion.

Originally posted by JS357
You are the closest I have seen here to the point, when you say "...ask God himself for the truth of the Bible...". Kudos for honestly expressing that one has to approach the Bible WITH faith, if the apparent contradictions are to be understood and accepted.

This is not to say that I have such faith.

CS Lewis was direct about this in his book The Problem ...[text shortened]... hat one must approach his analysis of the problem with faith in hand, or it won't make sense.

Thanks. The Bible was written in such a way that one has to "search out" it's meanings and what God is saying to us.
Many scriptures in the Bible point out that only by "God letting us" will the meanings be seen.
But since there are billions of humans on this earth and we all would naturally have our opinions and ideas on all subjects in life including with the Bible.
If God left it at that then it would be a mess as it is and would always continue to be that way with regurds to the Bible and we see the result of that now with thousands of so called religions all claming to be the ONE that has it right.
But that's not the way it is and not the way God deals with us.
He gave us the Bible for a reason. If we look to man's ideas and opinions, we get what we have now, a mess to say the least.
WE have to go directly to God in prayer, let him read our hearts and minds and allow him to search us out to see our motives, and then he decides if we progress spiritually.

Colossians 1:9
New Living Translation (NLT)

9 So we have not stopped praying for you since we first heard about you. We ask God to give you complete knowledge of his will and to give you spiritual wisdom and understanding.

The truth of the Bible is available to all, but one has to ask God HONESTLY for that and then be willing to do what needs to be done to earn that knowledge.

Originally posted by galveston75
Thanks. The Bible was written in such a way that one has to "search out" it's meanings and what God is saying to us.
Many scriptures in the Bible point out that only by "God letting us" will the meanings be seen.
But since there are billions of humans on this earth and we all would naturally have our opinions and ideas on all subjects in life includ HONESTLY for that and then be willing to do what needs to be done to earn that knowledge.

WE have to go directly to God in prayer, let him read our hearts and minds and allow him to search us out to see our motives, and then he decides if we progress spiritually.

What of the Christians who have done as you suggest and have come up with answers very different from one another as well as the JWs? How does one determine which answers are "man's ideas and opinions" and which are God's?

Originally posted by galveston75
Thanks. The Bible was written in such a way that one has to "search out" it's meanings and what God is saying to us.
Many scriptures in the Bible point out that only by "God letting us" will the meanings be seen.
But since there are billions of humans on this earth and we all would naturally have our opinions and ideas on all subjects in life includ ...[text shortened]... HONESTLY for that and then be willing to do what needs to be done to earn that knowledge.

In the days of the Apostles, the Greeks had no NT and very few copies of the OT. They simply went by what Paul and the Apostles preached.

The doctrine of the Jehovah Witnesses is totally different from the teachings of Paul.

So clearly you need to do some more praying.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
[b]WE have to go directly to God in prayer, let him read our hearts and minds and allow him to search us out to see our motives, and then he decides if we progress spiritually.

What of the Christians who have done as you suggest and have come up with answers very different from the JWs and each other? How does one determine which answers are "man's ideas and opinions" and which are God's?[/b]

"Test scripture with scripture." If one is thinking he has an idea correct, what does the rest of the Bible say?
For instance the one big doctrine that has been discussed over and over here is the trinity.
If it is a truth then the whole Bible would support it with no doubts at all and it would be seen clearly throught the entire Bible.
Also we need to know who exactly God is. God will only listen to us if we approach him in a way that he accepts.
Jesus gave us a model and that is to pray to his Father, not Jesus but to his Father and then only if we pray thru Jesus. And we have to use God's name which is not Jesus.
So there are some requirements one has to meet before God will even listen. This
is the first step in gaining knowledge from God.

Originally posted by galveston75
"Test scripture with scripture." If one is thinking he has an idea correct, what does the rest of the Bible say?
For instance the one big doctrine that has been discussed over and over here is the trinity.
If it is a truth then the whole Bible would support it with no doubts at all and it would be seen clearly throught the entire Bible.
Also we to meet before God will even listen. This
is the first step in gaining knowledge from God.

Even with your added stipulations:
"What of the Christians who have done as you suggest and have come up with answers very different from one another as well as the JWs? How does one determine which answers are "man's ideas and opinions" and which are God's?"

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
Even with your added stipulations:
"What of the Christians who have done as you suggest and have come up with answers very different from one another as well as the JWs? How does one determine which answers are "man's ideas and opinions" and which are God's?"

As I said if what they believe is supported by the Bible on all levels and does not have contradictions or any paganistic origins in their beliefs, then one has the right to beleve it.
Many though will believe they have it right but as Jesus said, he will disown them. So one HAS to be correct and hopefully God will see their honesty in wanting to know.
The Bible gives clues though if one is really a servant of God. Jesus gave one when he said the world will hate you.
This is only one of many clues to see if one is on the right path. If one is accepted by the masses and even so to say, rubs shoulders with the world and would even serve the world and it's demands, that may be a clue that one is not on the right track.

Originally posted by stellspalfie
if an innocent man is sentenced to death and given a lethal injection has he been murdered?

YES!

Actually a guilty man who is executed has been murdered too.

One of the reasons civilised countries don't do it.

Originally posted by galveston75
As I said if what they believe is supported by the Bible on all levels and does not have contradictions or any paganistic origins in their beliefs, then one has the right to beleve it.
Many though will believe they have it right but as Jesus said, he will disown them. So one HAS to be correct and hopefully God will see their honesty in wanting to know ...[text shortened]... even serve the world and it's demands, that may be a clue that one is not on the right track.

Doesn't seem like you are prepared to give a definitive answer, so I won't bother to ask it again.

Let me ask you this instead. If in fact that is how it works, why does the WTS seem to have so much literature that tells its members what the "truth in the Bible" is? Isn't the WTS literature "man's ideas and opinions"? Shouldn't the members instead be given a Bible and told to pray? Shouldn't they all get the same answers?