Originally posted by @dj2becker
That's obviously how your atheism will force you to view the matter. If God doesn't exist there is no ultimate right and wrong and there is no single correct answer to a moral question, which means that even if you think bestiality is wrong, yours is simply an opinion and the opinion that it is ok is equally valid to yours. It's like having to solve a mat ...[text shortened]... rect. Shoot wherever you want and whatever you hit you call it the target. What a way to live...

As long as you're not someone who does morally unsound things, I don't mind what you tell yourself about the "ultimate" this and the "ultimate" that. You've absorbed your moral compass from the influences you have been exposed to and it's a subjective tool that you use to try to be the best you think you can be given the way you have been brought up and what experiences you have. Which of the gods you've settled on, or which of the 40,000+ Christian denominations you've ended up in, is neither here nor there..

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Would you agree that your opinion that moral absolutes don't exist and that morals are relative could be wrong if it turns out that God does exist?

I have no idea. I have no idea what a god or gods would do or instruct us to do if they were to exist and if they were to reveal themselves to humans.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
It's like having to solve a math problem where any answer you give is correct.

Your analogy between the truth of a maths solution that can be proven on one hand, and the trurh of your aspirations and conjecture about supernatural things that cannot be proven, on the other, does not work for me.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
One would think that after a while he would try a different approach. It's so blatantly obvious by now.

Yes, it is. His trolling used to be very sophisticated and innovative and very high level, but that was back when Heartpence retired as Head Troll and Kiddo was looking to take his place.

After Kiddo became Head Troll, he really started resting on his laurels. Some days you can tell he’s just phoning it in and his heart’s not in it.

Sad!

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You are not making any sense. Why would you stay and fight for something that you only believe to be relatively true? What you are saying would make sense if you believed in moral absolutes. I have a feeling you do actually believe in moral absolutes but you can't admit it because it would undermine your atheism.

This is a great point. Kiddo’s “everything’s relative and of equal validity and worth” position is collapsing. He’s on the ropes and gasping for air and wishing he and tiger didn’t start puffing cigarettes at Shetland Primary.

Originally posted by @fmf
Because I am a moral agent with a moral compass.

Do you think it’s morally right for you and tiger to puff cigarettes at Shetland Primary when you’re only eight years old?

Originally posted by @fmf
We have discussed your use of the words "absolutes" and "objective" many times before. My stance has not changed.

Translation: Please stop connecting with all these haymakers. I’m getting groggy and fumbling in my trolling toolbox for my “I already explained that” rejoinder.

Help!

Originally posted by @dj2becker
The needle of your 'moral compass' within a paradigm of moral relativity points wherever the wind blows.

I think the ref needs to declare this a TKO. Kiddo’s out on his feet.

Originally posted by @fmf
The same goes for everybody.

Oh good grief, Kiddo. You’re not even trying anymore. You’re just posting the first flip comment that pops into your head.

Originally posted by @fmf
It's not "self-defeating" at all. The "wind" that blows us is culture, point in history, parents, upbringing, religion, lack of religion, philosophy, lack of philosophy, politics, family, neighbours, school, community, nation, relatives, colleagues, personal experiences, travel, tribulations, triumphs, and so on, in an uncountable number of varying subjective h ...[text shortened]... t with those we don't. We are all individuals with moral compasses shaped by nature and nurture.

What is this incomprehensible word salad? You’ve gone from being curt and flip to posting the RHP equivalent of a document dump.

Originally posted by @fmf
I have no idea. I have no idea what a god or gods would do or instruct us to do if they were to exist and if they were to reveal themselves to humans.

I have no idea.

That much is quite clear.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
[b]I have no idea.

That much is quite clear.[/b]

Your "thought experiment" is basically: 'FMF, if I were right, and you were wrong, and we both knew it, would I be right and would you be wrong?' It's inane.

Originally posted by @fmf
Your "thought experiment" is basically: 'FMF, if I were right, and you were wrong, and we both knew it, would I be right and would you be wrong?' It's inane.

We both know that certain actions are always wrong. You are just trying to suppress this knowledge rather than admit the obvious because your world view cannot account for moral absolutes. You are in denial.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
We both know that certain actions are always wrong. You are just trying to suppress this knowledge rather than admit the obvious because your world view cannot account for moral absolutes. You are in denial.

There are certain things I can't imagine doing. There are people who rape and abuse children with no moral qualms. My moral compass guides me and enables me to scrutinize the moralityof others. I am nonplussed by your self-aggrandizing use of vocabulary, as you know.

Originally posted by @fmf
There are certain things I can't imagine doing. There are people who rape and abuse children with no moral qualms. My moral compass guides me and enables me to scrutinize the moralityof others. I am nonplussed by your self-aggrandizing use of vocabulary, as you know.

Your moral compass isn’t worth much if you’re not even sure that rape and abuse is always wrong.