08 Mar 09
3 edits
Originally posted by SwissGambit=====================================
[b]Did you ever consider the effect your obstinancy might have on others contemplating the decision to be saved ?
Your words carry on their work after you. Others may make the descision to perish because of the enfluence of your words.
I'm really not out to convert people. However, I believe everyone should have the chance to make an informe n our own evaluation of the evidence.
There is no god for me to reject, insult, or accuse.[/b]
I'm really not out to convert people. However, I believe everyone should have the chance to make an informed decision. I think that your faith is one big illusion, and thus see no problem with people choosing not to follow your faith based on my words.
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I am not out to force people. But when you state things like you see no compassion in the God of the Bible, I point out that that is not so that the heaveny Father is not compassionate. You are talking about "informed" decisions.
There is one entire book of the Bible, Jonah, which is dedicated to the subject of God's reluctance to have to judge at all. The prophet with the message of judgment ran the other way. He wanted the enemies of Israel to be judged by God.
The point of the whole book is that God takes no pleasure to have to judge and IS compassionate. So while we're talking about "informed decisions" I think people here should know that.
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I can no more decide to believe in god than I can decide to believe the moon is made of green cheese. I can only do what we all must do: come to some belief based on our own evaluation of the evidence.
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And I can only reject bogus arguments like God in the Bible does not show any compassion.
I couldn't trust a person with such an obviously bigoted view of God and of Christ. I would not look to that person for input on an "informed decision" about my salvation.
Neither would I consider that based on such thoughts I could make a decision about the existence of God. At best this kind of person hopes that there is none, nothing more.
08 Mar 09
Originally posted by jaywillWell, this was one silly rant against an argument I did not make.
[b]=====================================
I'm really not out to convert people. However, I believe everyone should have the chance to make an informed decision. I think that your faith is one big illusion, and thus see no problem with people choosing not to follow your faith based on my words.
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I a ...[text shortened]... ce of God. At best this kind of person hopes that there is none, nothing more.[/b]
I'll leave you to it.
08 Mar 09
1 edit
Originally posted by jaywillThe Book of Jonah only shows that OT Monster God is "compassionate" IF you obey Him and a bastard if you don't. Whether that rates as true "compassion" is doubtful. There's nothing in Jonah showing OT Monster God is "reluctant to judge"; quite the contrary in fact - he's "judging" throughout the whole chapter. It does have OT Monster God changing his mind about Nineveh which is a bit odd for a 3O entity.
[b]=====================================
I'm really not out to convert people. However, I believe everyone should have the chance to make an informed decision. I think that your faith is one big illusion, and thus see no problem with people choosing not to follow your faith based on my words.
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I a ce of God. At best this kind of person hopes that there is none, nothing more.[/b]
Why SuperDuper God of the Bible even cares about what such inferior beings think is still an unanswered puzzle.
09 Mar 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitI think in all cases punishment should fit the intended purpose and not the crime. It is already recognized in most criminal justice systems that the sentence will be lighter if the chance of a repeat offense is minimal.
Can you give an example of a case in which the punishment should not fit the crime?
(Perhaps this would be a good topic for another thread...)
Also it is recognized that if the criminal is insane then the punishment is different because the punishments purpose for sane people is different.
I strongly feel that in a situation where the criminal will be incapable of repeating the offense and where copycat offenses are unlikely then there should be no punishment.
10 Mar 09
5 edits
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There is no god for me to reject, insult, or accuse.
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If in the end I find out that there is no God, then before I step into the oblivious non-existence of death and the grave, I'd like to thank the Bible writers.
I'd say "Thanks fellas, for coming up with such a book and such a character of Jesus Christ, however you managed to do it. Believing in it was the best possible life I could have lived. Thanks for the years of unmitigated joy that I experienced because of faith in Jesus Christ.
And if I had it all to do over again, I'd believe that same thing without a second thought. Through it I found what I was looking for.
I have no regrets. I only wish I had put my faith in Jesus Christ sooner."
But as it stands, I think the Bible is telling the truth.
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by jaywillIf that's what works for you, great.
[b]==================================
There is no god for me to reject, insult, or accuse.
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If in the end I find out that there is no God, then before I step into the oblivious non-existence of death and the grave, I'd like to thank the Bible writers.
I'd say "Thanks fellas, for coming up with suc ...[text shortened]... ith in Jesus Christ sooner."
But as it stands, I think the Bible is telling the truth.[/b]
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadI think a statement like "let the punishment fit the crime" can allow for some exceptions, much like the right to free speech can have exceptions, like not allowing people to shout FIRE! in a crowded theater.
I think in all cases punishment should fit the intended purpose and not the crime. It is already recognized in most criminal justice systems that the sentence will be lighter if the chance of a repeat offense is minimal.
Also it is recognized that if the criminal is insane then the punishment is different because the punishments purpose for sane people i ...[text shortened]... epeating the offense and where copycat offenses are unlikely then there should be no punishment.
However, I tend to disagree with your final sentence. A murderer who cannot repeat the crime, and spawns no copycat crimes, still has taken a life, and should not be allowed to just go free. That sets a very dangerous precedent.
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitSurely your point about setting a precedent is equivalent to my copycat crime clause? Maybe it was my mistake in the way I phrased it. What I meant by 'copycat crime' was that anyone else seeing the first guy go free should not then think they can get away with the same crime. A large part of punishment is in order to discourage others. From my understanding of the Christian 'final judgment' nobody can commit murder after it having realized that someone else got away with it scot free.
However, I tend to disagree with your final sentence. A murderer who cannot repeat the crime, and spawns no copycat crimes, still has taken a life, and should not be allowed to just go free. That sets a very dangerous precedent.
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by jaywillSo you would willingly delude yourself if it leads to what you perceive to be a happier life.
If in the end I find out that there is no God, then before I step into the oblivious non-existence of death and the grave, I'd like to thank the Bible writers.
I'd say "Thanks fellas, for coming up with such a book and such a character of Jesus Christ, however you managed to do it. Believing in it was the best possible life I could have lived. Thanks ...[text shortened]... ith in Jesus Christ sooner."
But as it stands, I think the Bible is telling the truth.
I personally believe that such delusion is detrimental to others. I think that Richard Dawkins and others have made a fairly good case in that regard.
If I found another religion that would result in you leading an even happier life (and I could convince you of such) would you willingly delude yourself into believing in it? If not, then why not?
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by jaywillGod sounds like the woman in Misery. She loved the stories and their author soooooo much...
God is the ultimate authority in the whole universe. He will do quite a lot to save man. But if man refuses to put away rebellion, man must loose.
To be annhilated so as to not be conscience is not to lose. That is to win. Or it is at least to "get out" of the government of God.
Ultimately, to rebell is to [b]lose. Losing means eternal punishment ...[text shortened]... nsequence. We need to see all that He has done to save us from that fate in Jesus Christ.[/b]
10 Mar 09
Originally posted by twhiteheadThe term 'copycat crime' is ambiguous; it can mean that someone commits a crime in the same way as a crime committed by another, so that law enforcement will think the other guy did it. For example, Criminal B hears of Criminal A's crime; then wears the same clothes and kills a victim with the same type of weapon, etc. as A did.
Surely your point about setting a precedent is equivalent to my copycat crime clause? Maybe it was my mistake in the way I phrased it. What I meant by 'copycat crime' was that anyone else seeing the first guy go free should not then think they can get away with the same crime. A large part of punishment is in order to discourage others. From my understand ...[text shortened]... ody can commit murder after it having realized that someone else got away with it scot free.
11 Mar 09
Originally posted by SwissGambitYou are correct, it was mistake.
The term 'copycat crime' is ambiguous; it can mean that someone commits a crime in the same way as a crime committed by another, so that law enforcement will think the other guy did it. For example, Criminal B hears of Criminal A's crime; then wears the same clothes and kills a victim with the same type of weapon, etc. as A did.
Would you agree with me that in a situation where the punishment does not provide a deterrent to either the perpetrator others, then punishment is little more than revenge.