Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
While what you've posted here may seem sound on the surface, it unravels upon closer inspection. I hope you try to read the following with an open mind and an open heart.

[b]As I said in my earlier post, The Law before and after Christs atonement are viewed differently. Before the atonement we are judged strictly by the law, and the law must be fulfill ...[text shortened]... s of Mine; and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."

In the other passage I cited earlier, Jesus plainly states that if you are truly a disciple, you will be made free from the slavery of committing sin. This indicates that Jesus believes that man IS capable of the righteousness required to fulfill the law. Note that Jesus says that the slave, i.e., everyone who commits sin, does not "remain in the house forever", but the son, i.e., the true disciple, "does remain forever".
--------------------THINK OF ONE----------------------------

I have pointed out repeatedly the fact that the hebrew language contains many words for "sin" and has specific catagories for sin that distinguish between wilful committing of sin and sins that occur as a result of human nature as part of life. We know that the disciples were imperfect and sinful even after baptism but Jesus still considered them his followers.

So how do we know what Jesus actually said and which words he used?

This is an area that you just won't explore. That of course is your right to do so but until you do you cannot talk with any authority about these words.

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The thread on Satan got me thinking about strategies Satan might employ in order to keep people from righteousness, i.e., following the will of God.

1) Deceive people into believing that it is futile to ever become righteous. That deviations from righteousness cannot be helped and are not the fault of the individual.

2) Deceive people into believin ...[text shortened]... their actions are decidedly unrighteous.

What strategies might you employ if you were Satan?

What strategies might you employ if you were Satan?

---------------ToOne-------------------------------------

Since grace is the great leveller and is offensive to Satan I would probably try and distract men as much as possible from thinking about the love , grace and acceptance of God and try and manipulate their minds so that they thought God could not love them unless they were perfected and free from all sin.

I would then try to get them trapped in some system whereby they would think that a place in heaven could be earned by achieving a certain standard of righteousness. They might then think that salvation was something that was "achieved" by themselves and their actions rather than flowing from the living God via the Spirit.

It would be important that the levels of righteousness were not specified too clearly so that men would never be quite sure if they had done enough. Set them too high and they would become impossible to keep for what man can be 100% as Holy as the living God himself. Set them any lower than this and it would silly because men by definition would still be sinful in some way. So best keep things woolly and undefined.

This would hopefully keep men trapped in fear and away from the house of love not knowing if they had lived well enough. In this system men would never be assured of their relationship with God , they would know that maybe one slip , one little sin might be enough to damn them.

Above all God would be presented as the great , unmerciful moral abacus in the sky. Any talk of his tenderness or compassionate fatherly love for us would need to be supressed or made to look like "cheap grace". Following the will of God (to achieve salvation) would become the priority rather than knowing any of his love or intimacy.

If I were Satan I would be trying to keep people away from the love of God , for love is God's very nature. Even if it meant men were pursuing righteousness rigorously that would be fine because they were missing God's love. If I could get them to get caught up in legalism they would forget the free gift of God's salvation and they might even start judging each other or getting proud of their own righteousness.

All the better! As long as the quiet whispers of love are supressed.

It's basically a convincing distraction technique that would look noble and appealing to men who considered themselves (secretly) to be morally of higher calibre than others and therefore more worthy of God's favour.

Lastly , I would employ legions of unwitting , unsuspecting humans to put forward these ideas very eloquently and convincingly (with the best of intentions) and they would think that they were serving God and furthering his kingdom (but they must not talk about love)

Oh so , and I would of course silence that Paul fellow , - all that stuff about " if I give all I have to the poor but have not love then I am am nothing " --YUK!

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
I think I understand your position regarding "sin" and "salvation".

What I'd like to understand is what you do with the words of Jesus.

For example, what do you think is Jesus saying here?

"Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teac ...[text shortened]... e telling people this if it's not possible for anyone to be in the second group?

I take it to mean that there is no hell and that those who live according to the commandments, confess and all that other good stuff are in the second group and the morally good people who don't(atheists, other religions, and people who never heard the word of God) in the first.

Originally posted by menace71
I had to REC that last one! I truly know God is more forgiving than we can comprehend 🙂



Manny

REC?

Originally posted by ThinkOfOne
The thread on Satan got me thinking about strategies Satan might employ in order to keep people from righteousness, i.e., following the will of God.

1) Deceive people into believing that it is futile to ever become righteous. That deviations from righteousness cannot be helped and are not the fault of the individual.

2) Deceive people into believin ...[text shortened]... their actions are decidedly unrighteous.

What strategies might you employ if you were Satan?

"What strategies might you employ if you were Satan?"

Lie.