19 Nov 06
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemNow that's like someone being upset when the answer to "4+4" is always given as "8".
Thank you for your contribution. I would be lost without a christian to help regurgitate the usual dogma.
"The usual dogma" might be tedious, but sometimes there are limited answers to a given problem.
20 Nov 06
Originally posted by HalitoseExcept that 4+4=8 is a universally accepted and proven fact, and Christianity and its claims are not.
Now that's like someone being upset when the answer to "4+4" is always given as "8".
"The usual dogma" might be tedious, but sometimes there are limited answers to a given problem.
22 Nov 06
Originally posted by MarinkatombOn this site, apparently not. However, amannion knows Christians who think that it is a ridiculus idea.
Ok, i admit it, i forgot i'd started this thread. Having skimmed through the posts so far, it looks like we strayed off topic a little.
[b]Is there a Christian out there who doesn't believe in hell and the devil?[/b]
From what i understand, most people seem to think that Heaven and Hell are conjoined.
22 Nov 06
Originally posted by geniusWhat i'm trying to get at here, is that the Bible was written by man, not by God or Jesus. This interpretation of the afterlife is so human it scares me (and it's meant to!)
On this site, apparently not. However, amannion knows Christians who think that it is a ridiculus idea.
From what i understand, most people seem to think that Heaven and Hell are conjoined.
Man is obsessed with morality. The Bible is a book of Moral guidelines, in much the same way as a countries laws are Moral guidelines. Each presents it's own incentive to 'conform', but the fact remains that neither will survive unless people actually conform to them. The only method of inducing conformity to such things is fear! We are afraid of Criminals, therefore we must make Criminals afraid of us, otherwise we'll be over run, or at least that is Mankind's approach and always has been.
IS the Bibles message so alien to man that we must have a Hell? Do we need this fear of eternal damnation to keep us on the straight and narrow? Is the Bibles message not one of compassion and forgiveness??
I am not saying whether God exists or not. I am not suggesting that Jesus didn't exist and that the Bible is fabricated, i have no way of knowing. But when i look at this institution, and see this Man made method of control being thrown around like it is the word of God it makes me wonder...
What about the rest of the Bible?
Now that i am of the conclusion that Hell does not exist, how can i believe in Heaven?
It seems obvious to me that Heaven and Hell are metaphors for life on Earth! A World full of people who treat each other with compassion, forgiveness, etc, would be a divine place to live, would it not? A place full of selfish, violent bigots on the other hand would be absolute Hell.
Why do so many people not realise this? Why do so many people take this literally? Are we all stupid? Or do we simply find it easier to believe in a perfect place where we will go when we die, rather than actually making this place a perfect place?
Is it not the fear (which the Bible encourages in us), the same fear that prevents us from being compassionate, forgiving, divine beings?
22 Nov 06
Originally posted by MarinkatombMost Christians claim that it is however inspired by God. How do they know that? Because it says so in the Bible! If you do not assume Godly inspiration in the writing then the whole lot starts to look extremely dodgy.
What i'm trying to get at here, is that the Bible was written by man, not by God or Jesus. This interpretation of the afterlife is so human it scares me (and it's meant to!)
22 Nov 06
Originally posted by twhiteheadYes, but that doesn't disprove the existence of God! 😉
Most Christians claim that it is however inspired by God. How do they know that? Because it says so in the Bible! If you do not assume Godly inspiration in the writing then the whole lot starts to look extremely dodgy.
22 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by MarinkatombThe content of the book, its wisdom, its fulfilled prophecies in many instances, are contributing factors to our believing that it is inspired.
Yes, but that doesn't disprove the existence of God! 😉
The belief in divine inspiration of the Bible is not based soley on a circular claim of inspiration.
Such an strawman argument is a real insult to some perceptive and intelligent minds. In some case I do think some scholars were keener in intelligence than most of us participating in this discussion.
And men like Tertullian, Cyprian, Agustine, were not so naive to believe in inspiration solely on a circular claim from the Bible. The CONTENT of the Bible had for them the stamp of divine inspiration supporting the claim.
23 Nov 06
Originally posted by HalitoseActually, it would be nice if christians could step out of the 'christian framework' and answer in their own words for a change.
True... but surely you were expecting an answer from within the Christian framework -- as it was the Christian God you were criticizing.
23 Nov 06
Originally posted by BigDoggProblemI'm not a big fan of the 50/50 propositions: the whole pass/fail thing just puts too much at stake with too little information for my tastes. Given my druthers, I'll take the slam dunk every time.
There is a 50/50 chance that your 'advance answer' is inadequate. 😵
While I am not content in wasting my life, as near as I can make out, the advance answers are more than adequate. Even the most touted retorts against reality fall so far short in their effort as to leave the truth untarnished.